5 ms·

Loneliness epidemic started 30+ years ago. There were books written in the 90s about it(bowling alone). Nothing modern can be blamed on it. If anything, social

Loneliness epidemic started 30+ years ago. There were books written in the 90s about it(bowling alone). Nothing modern can be blamed on it. If anything, social media is helping the crisis; not causing. The 'fixes' has been established for just as long. My nearby 'community centre' was built in 1987. Has this been successful at all? Not in the least bit. The reality of what is causing this hasnt changed. Without fixing this key problem, the crisis obviously has continued for 30+ years. I'm not nostradamus here. However, from many previous conversations it's crazy how absolutely nobody is ready to talk about the cause. They'd rather just call it a paradox or feign ignorance for why this is happening. Honestly it's rather conspiratorial creating when you think about it. Out of curiousity I asked what gemini 3 pro thinks. 1. Revival of third places. As if that hasnt been tried for 30+ years... fail. 2. replacing 'socializing' with "service" The idea is that cleaning a park will somehow make you less lonely is laughable at best. 3. Bridging the generational gap. Elderly teach the young skills? while youth teach digital literacy. My community centre literally has this. F mark. 4. Urban design and walkability. We need to spend trillions of dollars to completely redesign and rebuild cities? lol what. 5. digital hygiene social media is a sedative? crazy. I love gemini, but man they are getting it so wrong. All of this will likely just caused the crisis to be worse in my opinion. To me, has this been done unintentionally through the typical 'road to hell is paved with good intentions' or has this been intentionally done and maintained? The refusal to acknowledge the cause seems to push toward intentional. Guess we just live with the loneliness epidemic.

nemomarx 9mo ago
What is the cause in your view, then?
micromacrofoot 9mo ago
This feels overly cynical and reductive. A problem existing for 30 years doesn’t mean modern forces haven’t made it worse or changed its shape. Bowling Alone didn’t argue “nothing can help,” it showed that social participation declined as work hours grew, commutes lengthened, communities hollowed out, and institutions lost funding. Those trends didn’t stop in the 90s, they accelerated! I lived through it myself. Social media isn’t the sole cause, but it clearly displaces time, lowers the incentive to show up in person, and offers connection without obligation. Saying “community centers existed in 1987” misses the point... they stopped working when participation stopped being the default and became optional, inconvenient, and socially risky. People feel worn out and get "good enough" at home... so they choose the poor substitute. This also mirrors american food consumption habits. This doesn’t require a conspiracy. It’s an emergent outcome of optimizing society for efficiency, mobility, and consumption instead of continuity and belonging. Service, third places, walkability, and intergenerational spaces aren’t magic fixes... and loneliness isn’t solved by “hanging out,” it’s solved by repeated, role-based, low-friction interaction where people are needed. We all but know how to fix this problem, there are piles of research behind it. The real failure isn’t that these ideas were tried, it’s that we stripped away the economic and cultural structures that made them functional at all, then declared them ineffective. Pretending that nothing structural can help just guarantees the problem.
- incomingpain 9mo ago
  >This feels overly cynical and reductive. A problem existing for 30 years doesn’t mean modern forces haven’t made it worse or changed its shape. Bowling Alone didn’t argue “nothing can help,” it showed that social participation declined as work hours grew, commutes lengthened, communities hollowed out, and institutions lost funding. That's a fair point, but as I said, I see social media helping the situation, not worsening. >Saying “community centers existed in 1987” misses the point... they stopped working when participation stopped being the default and became optional, inconvenient, and socially risky. People feel worn out and get "good enough" at home... so they choose the poor substitute. This also mirrors american food consumption habits. It doesnt miss the point. The good enough is better than what is available not at home is the point. They are going to the best option. It doesnt mirror american fast food, i dont agree with that analogy. >This doesn’t require a conspiracy. That's very fair, i dont want to create the conspiracy theory but... I really dont want to go there but when discussion is so dishonest and refusing to accept the real cause(s) or really just the single root cause. Then it sure does feel this way to me. >It’s an emergent outcome of optimizing society for efficiency, mobility, and consumption instead of continuity and belonging. Service, third places, walkability, and intergenerational spaces aren’t magic fixes... and loneliness isn’t solved by “hanging out,” it’s solved by repeated, role-based, low-friction interaction where people are needed. We all but know how to fix this problem, there are piles of research behind it. Been tried extensively without success. At some point surely you try something else or give the reigns to someone else who is willing to have do the "wrong thing" >The real failure isn’t that these ideas were tried, it’s that we stripped away the economic and cultural structures that made them functional at all, then declared them ineffective. Pretending that nothing structural can help just guarantees the problem. I'm a IT guy and not a politician or whatever. My speech isnt changing anything at all. Declaring them ineffective is just a report card from me. Surely you cant fail to fix a problem for decades and think we shouldnt try to do something different to solve the problem. What's super interesting is that this is NOT history repeating. This is practically the first time this has ever happened. I know in my jurisdiction, it was largely speaking about 1984-1988 when the crisis started. I have considered starting my own political party with the goal of fixing it, but I expect absolutely nobody would vote for me and nobody is ready to discuss it.
lbrito 9mo ago
>4. Urban design and walkability. >We need to spend trillions of dollars to completely redesign and rebuild cities? lol what. That doesn't mean the point is wrong. The US bet on the wrong urban planning ideas, and now it is facing the consequences. This is not unique to the US; other places have fallen into the same trap.
- incomingpain 9mo ago
  The USA is designed around trains and large communities. Leading into cars from horses and suburbs. This design and walkability far pre-existed the loneliness epidemic. As for otherside, could this help the situation? Very much doubt it and reallocating a trillion $ means you have to defund a great deal of other things. Never happening, and likely to make the situation that much worse.
10xDev 9mo ago
LLMs are always going to output the median answer you would find on the web. That's why they are almost always mediocre in their response.
rpsw 9mo ago
Why are you refusing to state the cause?
- incomingpain 9mo ago
  >Why are you refusing to state the cause? I’ve discussed this for years, especially since Jonathan Haidt's book recently. Sharing my view is utterly pointless because people aren't ready for the debate. Even with the root cause, nobody agrees we should reverse it. I’m no super genius, many others see this problem, and politicians are exploiting it. My comment was more about the bizarre situation and how it makes me feel conspiratorial like it's intentionally being done.

nemomarx 9mo ago

What is the cause in your view, then?

micromacrofoot 9mo ago

This feels overly cynical and reductive. A problem existing for 30 years doesn’t mean modern forces haven’t made it worse or changed its shape. Bowling Alone didn’t argue “nothing can help,” it showed that social participation declined as work hours grew, commutes lengthened, communities hollowed out, and institutions lost funding. Those trends didn’t stop in the 90s, they accelerated! I lived through it myself. Social media isn’t the sole cause, but it clearly displaces time, lowers the incentive to show up in person, and offers connection without obligation. Saying “community centers existed in 1987” misses the point... they stopped working when participation stopped being the default and became optional, inconvenient, and socially risky. People feel worn out and get "good enough" at home... so they choose the poor substitute. This also mirrors american food consumption habits. This doesn’t require a conspiracy. It’s an emergent outcome of optimizing society for efficiency, mobility, and consumption instead of continuity and belonging. Service, third places, walkability, and intergenerational spaces aren’t magic fixes... and loneliness isn’t solved by “hanging out,” it’s solved by repeated, role-based, low-friction interaction where people are needed. We all but know how to fix this problem, there are piles of research behind it. The real failure isn’t that these ideas were tried, it’s that we stripped away the economic and cultural structures that made them functional at all, then declared them ineffective. Pretending that nothing structural can help just guarantees the problem.

incomingpain 9mo ago
>This feels overly cynical and reductive. A problem existing for 30 years doesn’t mean modern forces haven’t made it worse or changed its shape. Bowling Alone didn’t argue “nothing can help,” it showed that social participation declined as work hours grew, commutes lengthened, communities hollowed out, and institutions lost funding. That's a fair point, but as I said, I see social media helping the situation, not worsening. >Saying “community centers existed in 1987” misses the point... they stopped working when participation stopped being the default and became optional, inconvenient, and socially risky. People feel worn out and get "good enough" at home... so they choose the poor substitute. This also mirrors american food consumption habits. It doesnt miss the point. The good enough is better than what is available not at home is the point. They are going to the best option. It doesnt mirror american fast food, i dont agree with that analogy. >This doesn’t require a conspiracy. That's very fair, i dont want to create the conspiracy theory but... I really dont want to go there but when discussion is so dishonest and refusing to accept the real cause(s) or really just the single root cause. Then it sure does feel this way to me. >It’s an emergent outcome of optimizing society for efficiency, mobility, and consumption instead of continuity and belonging. Service, third places, walkability, and intergenerational spaces aren’t magic fixes... and loneliness isn’t solved by “hanging out,” it’s solved by repeated, role-based, low-friction interaction where people are needed. We all but know how to fix this problem, there are piles of research behind it. Been tried extensively without success. At some point surely you try something else or give the reigns to someone else who is willing to have do the "wrong thing" >The real failure isn’t that these ideas were tried, it’s that we stripped away the economic and cultural structures that made them functional at all, then declared them ineffective. Pretending that nothing structural can help just guarantees the problem. I'm a IT guy and not a politician or whatever. My speech isnt changing anything at all. Declaring them ineffective is just a report card from me. Surely you cant fail to fix a problem for decades and think we shouldnt try to do something different to solve the problem. What's super interesting is that this is NOT history repeating. This is practically the first time this has ever happened. I know in my jurisdiction, it was largely speaking about 1984-1988 when the crisis started. I have considered starting my own political party with the goal of fixing it, but I expect absolutely nobody would vote for me and nobody is ready to discuss it.

lbrito 9mo ago

>4. Urban design and walkability. >We need to spend trillions of dollars to completely redesign and rebuild cities? lol what. That doesn't mean the point is wrong. The US bet on the wrong urban planning ideas, and now it is facing the consequences. This is not unique to the US; other places have fallen into the same trap.

incomingpain 9mo ago
The USA is designed around trains and large communities. Leading into cars from horses and suburbs. This design and walkability far pre-existed the loneliness epidemic. As for otherside, could this help the situation? Very much doubt it and reallocating a trillion $ means you have to defund a great deal of other things. Never happening, and likely to make the situation that much worse.

10xDev 9mo ago

LLMs are always going to output the median answer you would find on the web. That's why they are almost always mediocre in their response.

rpsw 9mo ago

Why are you refusing to state the cause?

incomingpain 9mo ago
>Why are you refusing to state the cause? I’ve discussed this for years, especially since Jonathan Haidt's book recently. Sharing my view is utterly pointless because people aren't ready for the debate. Even with the root cause, nobody agrees we should reverse it. I’m no super genius, many others see this problem, and politicians are exploiting it. My comment was more about the bizarre situation and how it makes me feel conspiratorial like it's intentionally being done.