4 ms·

Exactly this. Vote for representatives that want to build walkable cities, support small businesses, and want to build parks. Suburban sprawl sucks.

by dymk 9mo ago

toomuchtodo 9mo ago
This. I also like the idea of libraries having a cafe, internet access, a place to meet, all non profit and owned by the community. Community is a function of distance, broadly speaking.
- reaperducer 9mo ago
  I also like the idea of libraries having a cafe, internet access, a place to meet, all non profit and owned by the community. There are lots of libraries with cafes, maker spaces, and more. Seattle is one. If yours doesn't, this is your wake-up call to get involved with your local library. Stop waiting for someone else to do things.
  - huhkerrf 9mo ago
    I'm willing to bet that the libraries near the person you're talking to have all but maybe a cafe. I mean, I've never seen a library in the US that didn't have internet access and a place to meet and that weren't nonprofit.
  - nereye 9mo ago
    Which Seattle library (am assuming you're referring to SPL/Seattle Public Library system) has a maker space? There is no maker space listed at https://www.spl.org/programs-and-services/a-z-programs-and-services https://www.spl.org/programs-and-services/a-z-programs-and-s.... Within KCLS, there are two public libraries that have maker spaces (AFAIK): Bellevue, Federal Way. PS this is not meant to be confrontational, would love it if there were more maker spaces in libraries (when have asked in the past, the usual answer is that they do not have enough space for it).
    - reaperducer 9mo ago
      No, the Seattle reference was for the cafe, not a maker space.
SoftTalker 9mo ago
Suburban sprawl is not going to be "fixed" in anyones lifetime. But it doesn't have to be limiting. I grew up in a very typical suburban style neighborhood in the 1970s. Tract homes, lots of cul-de-sac streets. But neighbors talked to one another, kids played together, there were summer gatherings in those cul-de-sacs on the 4th of July or Labor Day. Don't think you have to live in some idealized fantasy land to go talk to your neighbors.
- ecshafer 9mo ago
  I live in a suburban neighborhood with a couple bag ends, our neighborhood is pretty social. couple of neighborhood bbqs a year, kids all playing together every day, dinners, etc. It is quiet and not a lot of traffic with long term residents. I am not 100% on what exactly the key is for a town is, I think style matters, but Ive been in walkable neighborhoods without a good community, and non-walkable neighborhoods with one.
  - SoftTalker 9mo ago
    I'll say that when I was a kid, the neighborhood was still as it was originally built, no sidewalks. Didn't stop anyone from socializing, didn't stop kids from biking around. The city added sidewalks there in the '00s or so, but when I go back there I almost never see anyone using them. I think the trend of isolation and loneliness is not really related to infrastructure or stuff like "walkability." Those things are pretty minor obstacles.
    - johnpaulkiser 9mo ago
      How big were the lots? How far of a walk was the closest bar, grocery store, cafe? Do you have to walk onto someone's property to talk to them if they are sitting on the porch? I lived in a car dependent burb for 20+ years and would rarely, if ever, run into my neighbors out on the town. Living in a walkable neighborhood in a medium-low density city for under a year and I regularly run into my neighbors.
      - 9mo ago
BurningFrog 9mo ago
Voting isn't going to fix this problem in our lifetimes. We need to do things ourselves.
eddieroger 9mo ago
No it doesn't. I live in a planned neighborhood in the suburbs. I can walk to a branch of my local library, a few restaurants, a bar, a bookstore, I even get my haircut in my neighborhood. And even if none of that existed, nothing has stopped me from being friends with my neighbors, or the parents of my kid's friends. The suburbs are a different model with tradeoffs, but they're also useful for periods and phases of life different from the ones served by urban settings.
- stryan 9mo ago
  A planned neighborhood is technically by definition not suburban sprawl, as sprawl requires a lack of planning. On the other hand, I'd argue if you can do all of that (and said walking distance is under a mile[0]) you're not even in a suburb, you're in a dense enough location to be a town or small city. Unfortunately thanks to American zoning and planning it can be very difficult to know what your home area is actually considered and it makes this type of anecdotal evidence not particularly useful[1]. [0] A mile is essentially the farthest the average person will comfortable walk versus driving a car for travel that does not require carrying anything back. Once you add in carrying things (e.g. groceries) it drops to half a mile. Anything less dense than that and people won't want to walk, anything more dense than that and you're into standard city planning. [1] Assuming you're American of course and obviously I'm not about to ask you to dox yourself, considering this type of thing can vary right down to the neighbourhood level.
- PaulHoule 9mo ago
  Urban environments blunt people's connection to other people too, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese If you pack people in too tight they just tune each other out.
  - huhkerrf 9mo ago
    I mean, the very first paragraph of your own link says: "However, subsequent investigations revealed that the extent of public apathy was exaggerated." and the second paragraph says, "Researchers have since uncovered major inaccuracies in the Times article, and police interviews revealed that some witnesses had attempted to contact authorities."
tokioyoyo 9mo ago
I live in probably the most walkable city in the world, but there are millions of lonely people here as well. From any of my observations, I can’t pinpoint to one single problem. It might be a composite effect of different things contributing to the easiness of being alone. Cultural skill that overtime gets eroded, and as less time people spend among others, it becomes even harder to go back.

Exactly this. Vote for representatives that want to build walkable cities, support small businesses, and want to build parks. Suburban sprawl sucks.

by dymk 9mo ago

Exactly this. Vote for representatives that want to build walkable cities, support small businesses, and want to build parks. Suburban sprawl sucks.

toomuchtodo 9mo ago

This. I also like the idea of libraries having a cafe, internet access, a place to meet, all non profit and owned by the community. Community is a function of distance, broadly speaking.

reaperducer 9mo ago
I also like the idea of libraries having a cafe, internet access, a place to meet, all non profit and owned by the community. There are lots of libraries with cafes, maker spaces, and more. Seattle is one. If yours doesn't, this is your wake-up call to get involved with your local library. Stop waiting for someone else to do things.
- huhkerrf 9mo ago
  I'm willing to bet that the libraries near the person you're talking to have all but maybe a cafe. I mean, I've never seen a library in the US that didn't have internet access and a place to meet and that weren't nonprofit.
- nereye 9mo ago
  Which Seattle library (am assuming you're referring to SPL/Seattle Public Library system) has a maker space? There is no maker space listed at https://www.spl.org/programs-and-services/a-z-programs-and-services https://www.spl.org/programs-and-services/a-z-programs-and-s.... Within KCLS, there are two public libraries that have maker spaces (AFAIK): Bellevue, Federal Way. PS this is not meant to be confrontational, would love it if there were more maker spaces in libraries (when have asked in the past, the usual answer is that they do not have enough space for it).
  - reaperducer 9mo ago
    No, the Seattle reference was for the cafe, not a maker space.

SoftTalker 9mo ago

Suburban sprawl is not going to be "fixed" in anyones lifetime. But it doesn't have to be limiting. I grew up in a very typical suburban style neighborhood in the 1970s. Tract homes, lots of cul-de-sac streets. But neighbors talked to one another, kids played together, there were summer gatherings in those cul-de-sacs on the 4th of July or Labor Day. Don't think you have to live in some idealized fantasy land to go talk to your neighbors.

ecshafer 9mo ago
I live in a suburban neighborhood with a couple bag ends, our neighborhood is pretty social. couple of neighborhood bbqs a year, kids all playing together every day, dinners, etc. It is quiet and not a lot of traffic with long term residents. I am not 100% on what exactly the key is for a town is, I think style matters, but Ive been in walkable neighborhoods without a good community, and non-walkable neighborhoods with one.
- SoftTalker 9mo ago
  I'll say that when I was a kid, the neighborhood was still as it was originally built, no sidewalks. Didn't stop anyone from socializing, didn't stop kids from biking around. The city added sidewalks there in the '00s or so, but when I go back there I almost never see anyone using them. I think the trend of isolation and loneliness is not really related to infrastructure or stuff like "walkability." Those things are pretty minor obstacles.
  - johnpaulkiser 9mo ago
    How big were the lots? How far of a walk was the closest bar, grocery store, cafe? Do you have to walk onto someone's property to talk to them if they are sitting on the porch? I lived in a car dependent burb for 20+ years and would rarely, if ever, run into my neighbors out on the town. Living in a walkable neighborhood in a medium-low density city for under a year and I regularly run into my neighbors.
    - 9mo ago

BurningFrog 9mo ago

Voting isn't going to fix this problem in our lifetimes. We need to do things ourselves.

eddieroger 9mo ago

No it doesn't. I live in a planned neighborhood in the suburbs. I can walk to a branch of my local library, a few restaurants, a bar, a bookstore, I even get my haircut in my neighborhood. And even if none of that existed, nothing has stopped me from being friends with my neighbors, or the parents of my kid's friends. The suburbs are a different model with tradeoffs, but they're also useful for periods and phases of life different from the ones served by urban settings.

stryan 9mo ago
A planned neighborhood is technically by definition not suburban sprawl, as sprawl requires a lack of planning. On the other hand, I'd argue if you can do all of that (and said walking distance is under a mile[0]) you're not even in a suburb, you're in a dense enough location to be a town or small city. Unfortunately thanks to American zoning and planning it can be very difficult to know what your home area is actually considered and it makes this type of anecdotal evidence not particularly useful[1]. [0] A mile is essentially the farthest the average person will comfortable walk versus driving a car for travel that does not require carrying anything back. Once you add in carrying things (e.g. groceries) it drops to half a mile. Anything less dense than that and people won't want to walk, anything more dense than that and you're into standard city planning. [1] Assuming you're American of course and obviously I'm not about to ask you to dox yourself, considering this type of thing can vary right down to the neighbourhood level.
PaulHoule 9mo ago
Urban environments blunt people's connection to other people too, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese If you pack people in too tight they just tune each other out.
- huhkerrf 9mo ago
  I mean, the very first paragraph of your own link says: "However, subsequent investigations revealed that the extent of public apathy was exaggerated." and the second paragraph says, "Researchers have since uncovered major inaccuracies in the Times article, and police interviews revealed that some witnesses had attempted to contact authorities."

tokioyoyo 9mo ago

I live in probably the most walkable city in the world, but there are millions of lonely people here as well. From any of my observations, I can’t pinpoint to one single problem. It might be a composite effect of different things contributing to the easiness of being alone. Cultural skill that overtime gets eroded, and as less time people spend among others, it becomes even harder to go back.