4 ms·

Here is an example of ICE invading a home without a warrant, reported by Fox. [0] That is definitely against our way of life. Your list of crimes is just as p

by deeg 9mo ago

Here is an example of ICE invading a home without a warrant, reported by Fox. [0] That is definitely against our way of life. Your list of crimes is just as prevalent in white people. Statistically immigrants commit fewer crimes than native born citizens. Undocumented immigrants commit even fewer violent crimes [1]. So if we're doing house to house searches for criminals we should start with citizens. 0 - https://www.fox9.com/news/minneapolis-family-demands-judicial-warrant-federal-agents-raid-jan-2026 https://www.fox9.com/news/minneapolis-family-demands-judicia... 1 - https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD004.pdf https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG...

15155 9mo ago
Not the most compelling case: > Gibson is a 38-year-old Liberian citizen, who has a final immigration removal order dating back to 2009. > Statistically immigrants commit fewer crimes than native born citizens Legal ones, yes - they have a lot to lose. Can you please cite any study positing the same for illegal immigrants?
- deeg 9mo ago
  > Not the most compelling case: Does not matter one bit. Law enforcement may not break down doors without a warrant except in limited cases. This was not one of them. They violated the constitution and our way of life. > Legal ones... I'm guessing you didn't read the cite. It clearly shows that undocumented immigrants commit significantly less crime. Once you read it I'd be interested to know if it changes your opinion at all.
  - alex43578 9mo ago
    The majority of illegal immigrants did commit a crime by virtue of being illegals, violating 8 U.S.C. 1325, so the crime-rate for illegals is certainly higher than non-immigrants right out of the gate. For the less-than-half who have “only” committed civil immigration violations, the point still remains that they are here illegally and are subject to civil immigration proceedings.
    - deeg 9mo ago
      So no comment about illegally knocking down doors? No comment about stopping naturalization ceremonies? I'll go back to this: if we wanted to reduce crime, we'd go after citizens first.
      - newfriend 9mo ago
        Simply incorrect. That study is yet another that fails to account for the fact that immigration status is not known immediately upon arrest. > Studies purporting to show low illegal immigrant crime rates in Texas fail to account for the fact that illegal immigrants are not always identified immediately upon arrest. In many cases, illegal immigrants are identified only after they are imprisoned. Given sufficient time for data collection, it appears that illegal immigrants have above average conviction rates for homicide and sexual assault, while they have lower rates for robbery and drugs. [1] There is also the question of how many illegal aliens actually exist in the US, which severely complicates calculation of rates for their population. [1] https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal-Immigrant-Criminality https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal...
        snark_attack 9mo ago
        The Cato author rebutted that article, and he and CIS traded rebuttals until this post, where the Cato author backs his point up with copious FOIA data. There seems to have been no further follow-up, so this could be the last word on that particular exchange: https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-still-wrong-about-illegal-immigrant-crime-texas https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-still-w...
        willmarch 9mo ago
        “Simply incorrect” overstates what your CIS link shows. Yes, status isn’t always known at arrest, and time-lag/unknown-status classification is a real measurement issue. But that’s not a demonstration that the cited studies are false; it's a methodological dispute about how Texas data should be interpreted. Even CIS effectively concedes the key limitation: “any crime” conviction rates aren’t meaningful under their own description because identification is biased toward longer prison terms/serious offenses. That means their approach can’t legitimately be used as a general claim that “undocumented commit more crime.” Also, Texas is one of the few places where researchers do try to reconcile arrest/ID systems (e.g., Light et al., PNAS 2020): https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117 And there are direct responses to CIS’s Texas framing (e.g., Cato 2024): https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/illegal-immigrant-murderers-texas-2013-2022 https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/illegal-immigrant-murde... So: criticize uncertainty, sure, but “therefore the low-crime finding is simply incorrect” doesn’t follow.
newfriend 9mo ago
Illegal aliens are shown to commit more crimes than citizens when time is given to determine immigration status. [1] > Studies purporting to show low illegal immigrant crime rates in Texas fail to account for the fact that illegal immigrants are not always identified immediately upon arrest. In many cases, illegal immigrants are identified only after they are imprisoned. Given sufficient time for data collection, it appears that illegal immigrants have above average conviction rates for homicide and sexual assault, while they have lower rates for robbery and drugs. There is also the question of how many illegal aliens actually exist in the US, which severely complicates calculation of rates for their population. Your pdf is a repost of the exact study (Light) cited here as being flawed. [1] https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal-Immigrant-Criminality https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal...

by deeg 9mo ago

15155 9mo ago

Not the most compelling case: > Gibson is a 38-year-old Liberian citizen, who has a final immigration removal order dating back to 2009. > Statistically immigrants commit fewer crimes than native born citizens Legal ones, yes - they have a lot to lose. Can you please cite any study positing the same for illegal immigrants?

deeg 9mo ago
> Not the most compelling case: Does not matter one bit. Law enforcement may not break down doors without a warrant except in limited cases. This was not one of them. They violated the constitution and our way of life. > Legal ones... I'm guessing you didn't read the cite. It clearly shows that undocumented immigrants commit significantly less crime. Once you read it I'd be interested to know if it changes your opinion at all.
- alex43578 9mo ago
  The majority of illegal immigrants did commit a crime by virtue of being illegals, violating 8 U.S.C. 1325, so the crime-rate for illegals is certainly higher than non-immigrants right out of the gate. For the less-than-half who have “only” committed civil immigration violations, the point still remains that they are here illegally and are subject to civil immigration proceedings.
  - deeg 9mo ago
    So no comment about illegally knocking down doors? No comment about stopping naturalization ceremonies? I'll go back to this: if we wanted to reduce crime, we'd go after citizens first.
    - newfriend 9mo ago
      Simply incorrect. That study is yet another that fails to account for the fact that immigration status is not known immediately upon arrest. > Studies purporting to show low illegal immigrant crime rates in Texas fail to account for the fact that illegal immigrants are not always identified immediately upon arrest. In many cases, illegal immigrants are identified only after they are imprisoned. Given sufficient time for data collection, it appears that illegal immigrants have above average conviction rates for homicide and sexual assault, while they have lower rates for robbery and drugs. [1] There is also the question of how many illegal aliens actually exist in the US, which severely complicates calculation of rates for their population. [1] https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal-Immigrant-Criminality https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal...
      - snark_attack 9mo ago
        The Cato author rebutted that article, and he and CIS traded rebuttals until this post, where the Cato author backs his point up with copious FOIA data. There seems to have been no further follow-up, so this could be the last word on that particular exchange: https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-still-wrong-about-illegal-immigrant-crime-texas https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-still-w...
      - willmarch 9mo ago
        “Simply incorrect” overstates what your CIS link shows. Yes, status isn’t always known at arrest, and time-lag/unknown-status classification is a real measurement issue. But that’s not a demonstration that the cited studies are false; it's a methodological dispute about how Texas data should be interpreted. Even CIS effectively concedes the key limitation: “any crime” conviction rates aren’t meaningful under their own description because identification is biased toward longer prison terms/serious offenses. That means their approach can’t legitimately be used as a general claim that “undocumented commit more crime.” Also, Texas is one of the few places where researchers do try to reconcile arrest/ID systems (e.g., Light et al., PNAS 2020): https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117 And there are direct responses to CIS’s Texas framing (e.g., Cato 2024): https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/illegal-immigrant-murderers-texas-2013-2022 https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/illegal-immigrant-murde... So: criticize uncertainty, sure, but “therefore the low-crime finding is simply incorrect” doesn’t follow.

newfriend 9mo ago

Illegal aliens are shown to commit more crimes than citizens when time is given to determine immigration status. [1] > Studies purporting to show low illegal immigrant crime rates in Texas fail to account for the fact that illegal immigrants are not always identified immediately upon arrest. In many cases, illegal immigrants are identified only after they are imprisoned. Given sufficient time for data collection, it appears that illegal immigrants have above average conviction rates for homicide and sexual assault, while they have lower rates for robbery and drugs. There is also the question of how many illegal aliens actually exist in the US, which severely complicates calculation of rates for their population. Your pdf is a repost of the exact study (Light) cited here as being flawed. [1] https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal-Immigrant-Criminality https://cis.org/Report/Misuse-Texas-Data-Understates-Illegal...