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"Remember that this is what separates the women from the girls." OK, I appreciate that he's trying not to be sexist, but this crosses the line into meaning not

"Remember that this is what separates the women from the girls." OK, I appreciate that he's trying not to be sexist, but this crosses the line into meaning nothing.

ianstormtaylor 14y ago
I don't think it means nothing. Actually, if you read that line as him trying not to be sexist, doesn't that automatically mean that you made the connection to "men from the boys"?
jessedhillon 14y ago
If you're saying that the entire meaning of this post is contained in the gender of a transitory person, conjured merely to be a demonstrative object of his essay, then what you are saying is dumb. He's not trying to avoid being sexist. What's sexist is to assume that there is some ulterior reason why the object of his essay would be a woman. This despite your professed appreciation for counter-sexist efforts.
ghshephard 14y ago
Ben is pretty much 100% consistent in his essays when using the feminine as his default gender for a CEO. Like his love of hip hop, it's just one of the elements of his style.
roguecoder 14y ago
You think women and girls are the same thing?
daniel-cussen 14y ago
Edit: I had always heard the phrase "separate the men from the boys" in that form rather than the feminine form. And I think there's a reason there's a different meaning, that's pretty intricately tied to social notions of gender. While gender is largely socially constructed, rites of passage for respective genders are even more so. In many cultures, young men go through a rite of passage to prove they're men. They prove their masculinity--not show it, prove it, usually overcoming some obstacle. They kill a lion, for instance. Women go through rites of passage too, but they do not involve proof, rather show. This does not mean the challenges involved are easier. It simply means their role in the final evaluation is passive rather than active. The reason men are active in their judgment and women passive reflects back on the opposite gender, because men judge women and women judge men. Men are looking for traits that are visible, women for traits of character. You could argue this is all because men are shallow and women are not, and you'd be right for reasons due, in turn, with the gametic, game-theoretical origin of asymmetries between men and women. So there are fundamental reasons why it's not the same thing to say "separate the men from the boys" and "separate the women from the girls."

"Remember that this is what separates the women from the girls." OK, I appreciate that he's trying not to be sexist, but this crosses the line into meaning nothing.

ianstormtaylor 14y ago

I don't think it means nothing. Actually, if you read that line as him trying not to be sexist, doesn't that automatically mean that you made the connection to "men from the boys"?

jessedhillon 14y ago

If you're saying that the entire meaning of this post is contained in the gender of a transitory person, conjured merely to be a demonstrative object of his essay, then what you are saying is dumb. He's not trying to avoid being sexist. What's sexist is to assume that there is some ulterior reason why the object of his essay would be a woman. This despite your professed appreciation for counter-sexist efforts.

ghshephard 14y ago

Ben is pretty much 100% consistent in his essays when using the feminine as his default gender for a CEO. Like his love of hip hop, it's just one of the elements of his style.

roguecoder 14y ago

You think women and girls are the same thing?

daniel-cussen 14y ago

Edit: I had always heard the phrase "separate the men from the boys" in that form rather than the feminine form. And I think there's a reason there's a different meaning, that's pretty intricately tied to social notions of gender. While gender is largely socially constructed, rites of passage for respective genders are even more so. In many cultures, young men go through a rite of passage to prove they're men. They prove their masculinity--not show it, prove it, usually overcoming some obstacle. They kill a lion, for instance. Women go through rites of passage too, but they do not involve proof, rather show. This does not mean the challenges involved are easier. It simply means their role in the final evaluation is passive rather than active. The reason men are active in their judgment and women passive reflects back on the opposite gender, because men judge women and women judge men. Men are looking for traits that are visible, women for traits of character. You could argue this is all because men are shallow and women are not, and you'd be right for reasons due, in turn, with the gametic, game-theoretical origin of asymmetries between men and women. So there are fundamental reasons why it's not the same thing to say "separate the men from the boys" and "separate the women from the girls."