9 ms·

I'm also in this group, so I have a few theories as to what causes it and how to fix it. For one thing, I was severely traumatized as a kid, which delayed a lo

I'm also in this group, so I have a few theories as to what causes it and how to fix it. For one thing, I was severely traumatized as a kid, which delayed a lot of my social skills. I'm catching up but not all the way there yet. When my social battery is full, I can do pretty well, but if I'm even a little down, it's basically impossible to act normally. I also had it hammered into me as a kid that nobody wants me around, nobody could ever love me, I'm a failure, a burden, a creep, a weirdo, and nothing but a bothersome nuisance that nobody would ever want to spend 30 seconds alone with. I'm trying to reject these thoughts, but it's difficult when you have nobody to talk to. It's like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. I wonder how many people have the same issue. I've made a few friends in person, but I rarely get to see them. Well I've started doing public surveys in my nearby big city, and documenting the results. I just hold out a posterboard that says "how alone do you feel"[1] or "have you ever been in love" etc, and hold out a marker, and people come up and take the survey. At first I did this out of sheer loneliness and boredom. But I have done it for enough months that some people have come up to me and told me that I've helped them, or that they look forward to my signs. I'm trying to reach those people who feel the way I feel have no way of connecting with anyone, or at least feel that they don't. Do you have any new ideas of how to achieve this? [1] https://chicagosignguy.com/blog/how-alone-do-you-feel.html https://chicagosignguy.com/blog/how-alone-do-you-feel.html

sebg 9mo ago
Helping people like you are seems like an amazing start. Maybe try to get a pyramid structure going where you teach people to help other people and then they teach people and then it’s a movement? But at all times a low level of effort so there is no pressure other than just holding up a sign or a marker. I’ve found the hardest thing is breaking the ice and the sign / marker normalises a low stakes interaction where one participant can walk away at any time
- publicdebates 9mo ago
  I've thought a lot about this since you wrote it. I do wonder if this could become a pyramid activity. One problem is that it has to be people who are relatively comfortable talking to strangers, which by definition excludes the main people I'm trying to reach. That said, I wonder if there's a middle ground. Maybe people like myself, who feel unfulfilled, but don't have too much difficulty talking to strangers, could be the ones who hold the signs. And we could help those people get to the point we're at... it could work.
  - sebg 9mo ago
    Good points. Maybe something like making two person teams of a non-talker and talker? Non-talker is getting trained to be a talker while the talker is doing the recruiting? Non-talker holds sign / hands out writing implement. Talker talks. Everyone slowly moves up the chain?
- gulugawa 9mo ago
  I think teaching people so that they can teach others is a necessity. I've fond that the most effective meetups are the ones where people have a shared sense of ownership, which includes being welcoming to people who are new. One board game group I am a part of ran for 2 years without an official host for this reason.
  - sebg 9mo ago
    100% agree! Teaching others to teach helps broaden their perspective/ world as well. Everyone wins
titanomachy 9mo ago
I like this poster thing. Anything that gives people a little connection to those around them. I sometimes sit on my front step and play guitar. 9/10 people ignore me but usually I'll have one or two nice conversations with a neighbor, and have made a couple friends this way. It helps that I live in a dense walkable place with lots of people who are similar to me.
- vharuck 9mo ago
  I've done sidewalk art with my kid. Between Spring and Fall last year, I'd make a new drawing every time it rained. Rarely was there a day without chalk on my sidewalk. I did it to play with my kid (and learn a little Japanese by writing the title in kanji), but another outcome was talking to neighbors. I keep to myself and have been told I'm difficult to approach, but people often come up and compliment the drawings. One lady said that, when walking with her granddaughter, she makes sure to see what's new on my sidewalk. It's been a very "low risk" way to put myself out there. I draw without anyone looking, and chatty people come to me while I'm in the yard.
yesfitz 9mo ago
I've posted this thought a few times in different ways, but in my experience, community is found and then built. Regularly sharing space with others is the way to start finding community. I think your surveying is an example of that. The next step is when the interactions begin taking place outside of the regular time/place, as evidenced by your epilogue. What I haven't posted before is anything about how to successfully create those connections. Maybe we get lucky and someone will share our taste in music or movies or what have you, and the connection will be almost effortless. But to increase the rate of connection, I've found that learning to ask good questions is key. We can learn a lot from popular interviewers like Terry Gross, Johnny Carson, or James Lipton. But to provide some direct tips: Lead with open-ended questions (i.e. not "yes or no"). Ask follow-up questions. Share a little bit while asking questions (e.g. "I'm not really into X music, more Y. Where would I start if I wanted to listen to X?") Of course, sometimes friendships just aren't meant to be. It's tough, and can feel like a waste of time to have made the connection, but I've been surprised multiple times when a conversation that seemed like a slog of a one-off led to fruitful friendships later.
- vel0city 9mo ago
  That's one thing I've found about trying to meet new people. Try and find something they want to talk about, and the floodgates will often open.
soulofmischief 9mo ago
Hey, I love you. Since I was a small child, my grandfather used to beat me savagely and shake me and pin me to the ground, screaming that the devil was inside of me and that I would never be capable of loving or being loved. This was literally beaten into me. He'd beat me with the buckle end of the belt, like a whip, hitting my face, arms, whatever he could. He'd keep beating me until I couldn't cry anymore, telling me that men are not supposed to cry, and that it was his responsibility to teach me not to cry. I flashback at least once a day to it. But, he was wrong. I love a lot. So much that sometimes it's unbearable. I cry all the time. Sometimes out of pure love for someone. And there are people who I think love me. Of course the doubt is permanently sewn in. But my heart goes out to you, seriously. I love you just for existing and being yourself, and I hope you're okay. We're not alone. Email's in my bio if you ever want to talk.
- srean 9mo ago
  I am always in awe when people are able to manage such an unsavoury baggage. That's some tough going.
- publicdebates 9mo ago
  I appreciate the sentiment, but knowing that it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality except for the one thing we have somewhat in common, means that your comment is to me merely a representation of you and what you stand for. Which is great and beautiful, but it doesn't cross the bridge of being a meaningful comment on my end. That's actually the exact problem I'm facing, so it's incredibly relevant. A year ago, I was talking to the local Catholic priest (I was donating some religious statues that I had effectively inherited), and it came up in conversation that I was going through a rough time. He went in for a hug, and it felt so absolutely empty and disingenuous. I accepted it merely to avoid a scene, but it was absolutely not welcome or meaningful. When I'm out in the city, I want to reach out to those people who put that they feel "100%" alone just like I do. I wrote in the article some of my thoughts and feelings on this, and some things I tried and didn't try. But ultimately, that's the gap I want to bridge now. We have a thing in common. How do we go from there? (Not you and me, but me and a stranger who has the same problem as me that they want to solve.) What do I say next? What's the next thing we can do in that interaction, or maybe a later one if I ever see them again? This is my question to myself, what I'm wondering in this whole post.
iambateman 9mo ago
Thanks for sharing. Your website made me smile…it is a fun one for sure.
- publicdebates 9mo ago
  Thanks. I've been considering potentially starting a non-profit that accepts donations, to be able to afford to do this more often.
srean 9mo ago
Traumatic childhood almost always messes with how one attaches with people. A small exceptional fraction somehow manage to remain unaffected. When attachment styles get warped, behaviors that were a self protective behavior in childhood, become self-defeating behaviors in adult life. The person is quite oblivious to all this because those behaviors and fragile modes of attachment feel perfectly normal -- it is like growing up in a different g (acceleration due to gravity). It feels like - I am right, it's the others who are wrong, unfair, greedy, needy, flakey, stupid. For me this book [0] was very helpful for understanding what's going on in and around me [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9547888-attached https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9547888-attached
blopker 9mo ago
After my dad died from cancer in 2018, I saw first hand the resulting loneliness and the lack of resources available. Being an engineer, I figured I might as well try to solve it, at least for some people. In 2020, I started a non-profit for small support groups[0]. We're small, and I've been mostly funding it myself, but it's growing. The main issue is we don't have the resources to cover every topic, so it's not for everyone (yet). Happy to chat if you have feedback, email is in my profile. Everything we do is open source too[1]. [0]: https://www.totem.org/ https://www.totem.org/ [1]: https://github.com/totem-technologies/totem-server https://github.com/totem-technologies/totem-server
jasondigitized 9mo ago
Wondering if your results are skewed towards people who are outside and therefore have a higher probability of not being lonely by virtue of them being amongst people.
- publicdebates 9mo ago
  Definitely, yes. But I figure, the people I'm trying to reach are basically only ever outside when they're talking to the grocery store and back. That's the only time to catch them, if ever. So this is my only shot. I do stand right across the street from the Walgreens too, so I definitely know that I've seen people going there for something quick and back. And many of them pass me regularly, every week. Some of them have stopped and met me and have become "regulars" so to speak, but others have never even made eye contact with me, though I recognize them now. This is of course out of thousands of people, and only on one consistent street corner in Chicago. But we have to start somewhere.
Hnrobert42 9mo ago
> I'm catching up but not all the way there yet. The only thing you have to catch up on is that there is nothing to catch up on. Everyone is at some stage of growth. No one is ever done growing. I am impressed by your surveys. You're being open and engaging the world. That's awesome. Now hearing your story, I'd be happy to engage you or even buy you a coffee to hear the results. Yet if I saw you on the street with a sign, I would likely hustle past. I've lived too long in big cities, and I've developed a crusty shell. So if I pass you by and ignore you, I apologize. I am the one with the problem. :-)

sebg 9mo ago

Helping people like you are seems like an amazing start. Maybe try to get a pyramid structure going where you teach people to help other people and then they teach people and then it’s a movement? But at all times a low level of effort so there is no pressure other than just holding up a sign or a marker. I’ve found the hardest thing is breaking the ice and the sign / marker normalises a low stakes interaction where one participant can walk away at any time

publicdebates 9mo ago
I've thought a lot about this since you wrote it. I do wonder if this could become a pyramid activity. One problem is that it has to be people who are relatively comfortable talking to strangers, which by definition excludes the main people I'm trying to reach. That said, I wonder if there's a middle ground. Maybe people like myself, who feel unfulfilled, but don't have too much difficulty talking to strangers, could be the ones who hold the signs. And we could help those people get to the point we're at... it could work.
- sebg 9mo ago
  Good points. Maybe something like making two person teams of a non-talker and talker? Non-talker is getting trained to be a talker while the talker is doing the recruiting? Non-talker holds sign / hands out writing implement. Talker talks. Everyone slowly moves up the chain?
gulugawa 9mo ago
I think teaching people so that they can teach others is a necessity. I've fond that the most effective meetups are the ones where people have a shared sense of ownership, which includes being welcoming to people who are new. One board game group I am a part of ran for 2 years without an official host for this reason.
- sebg 9mo ago
  100% agree! Teaching others to teach helps broaden their perspective/ world as well. Everyone wins

titanomachy 9mo ago

I like this poster thing. Anything that gives people a little connection to those around them. I sometimes sit on my front step and play guitar. 9/10 people ignore me but usually I'll have one or two nice conversations with a neighbor, and have made a couple friends this way. It helps that I live in a dense walkable place with lots of people who are similar to me.

vharuck 9mo ago
I've done sidewalk art with my kid. Between Spring and Fall last year, I'd make a new drawing every time it rained. Rarely was there a day without chalk on my sidewalk. I did it to play with my kid (and learn a little Japanese by writing the title in kanji), but another outcome was talking to neighbors. I keep to myself and have been told I'm difficult to approach, but people often come up and compliment the drawings. One lady said that, when walking with her granddaughter, she makes sure to see what's new on my sidewalk. It's been a very "low risk" way to put myself out there. I draw without anyone looking, and chatty people come to me while I'm in the yard.

yesfitz 9mo ago

I've posted this thought a few times in different ways, but in my experience, community is found and then built. Regularly sharing space with others is the way to start finding community. I think your surveying is an example of that. The next step is when the interactions begin taking place outside of the regular time/place, as evidenced by your epilogue. What I haven't posted before is anything about how to successfully create those connections. Maybe we get lucky and someone will share our taste in music or movies or what have you, and the connection will be almost effortless. But to increase the rate of connection, I've found that learning to ask good questions is key. We can learn a lot from popular interviewers like Terry Gross, Johnny Carson, or James Lipton. But to provide some direct tips: Lead with open-ended questions (i.e. not "yes or no"). Ask follow-up questions. Share a little bit while asking questions (e.g. "I'm not really into X music, more Y. Where would I start if I wanted to listen to X?") Of course, sometimes friendships just aren't meant to be. It's tough, and can feel like a waste of time to have made the connection, but I've been surprised multiple times when a conversation that seemed like a slog of a one-off led to fruitful friendships later.

vel0city 9mo ago
That's one thing I've found about trying to meet new people. Try and find something they want to talk about, and the floodgates will often open.

soulofmischief 9mo ago

Hey, I love you. Since I was a small child, my grandfather used to beat me savagely and shake me and pin me to the ground, screaming that the devil was inside of me and that I would never be capable of loving or being loved. This was literally beaten into me. He'd beat me with the buckle end of the belt, like a whip, hitting my face, arms, whatever he could. He'd keep beating me until I couldn't cry anymore, telling me that men are not supposed to cry, and that it was his responsibility to teach me not to cry. I flashback at least once a day to it. But, he was wrong. I love a lot. So much that sometimes it's unbearable. I cry all the time. Sometimes out of pure love for someone. And there are people who I think love me. Of course the doubt is permanently sewn in. But my heart goes out to you, seriously. I love you just for existing and being yourself, and I hope you're okay. We're not alone. Email's in my bio if you ever want to talk.

srean 9mo ago
I am always in awe when people are able to manage such an unsavoury baggage. That's some tough going.
publicdebates 9mo ago
I appreciate the sentiment, but knowing that it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality except for the one thing we have somewhat in common, means that your comment is to me merely a representation of you and what you stand for. Which is great and beautiful, but it doesn't cross the bridge of being a meaningful comment on my end. That's actually the exact problem I'm facing, so it's incredibly relevant. A year ago, I was talking to the local Catholic priest (I was donating some religious statues that I had effectively inherited), and it came up in conversation that I was going through a rough time. He went in for a hug, and it felt so absolutely empty and disingenuous. I accepted it merely to avoid a scene, but it was absolutely not welcome or meaningful. When I'm out in the city, I want to reach out to those people who put that they feel "100%" alone just like I do. I wrote in the article some of my thoughts and feelings on this, and some things I tried and didn't try. But ultimately, that's the gap I want to bridge now. We have a thing in common. How do we go from there? (Not you and me, but me and a stranger who has the same problem as me that they want to solve.) What do I say next? What's the next thing we can do in that interaction, or maybe a later one if I ever see them again? This is my question to myself, what I'm wondering in this whole post.

iambateman 9mo ago

Thanks for sharing. Your website made me smile…it is a fun one for sure.

publicdebates 9mo ago
Thanks. I've been considering potentially starting a non-profit that accepts donations, to be able to afford to do this more often.

srean 9mo ago

Traumatic childhood almost always messes with how one attaches with people. A small exceptional fraction somehow manage to remain unaffected. When attachment styles get warped, behaviors that were a self protective behavior in childhood, become self-defeating behaviors in adult life. The person is quite oblivious to all this because those behaviors and fragile modes of attachment feel perfectly normal -- it is like growing up in a different g (acceleration due to gravity). It feels like - I am right, it's the others who are wrong, unfair, greedy, needy, flakey, stupid. For me this book [0] was very helpful for understanding what's going on in and around me [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9547888-attached https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9547888-attached

blopker 9mo ago

After my dad died from cancer in 2018, I saw first hand the resulting loneliness and the lack of resources available. Being an engineer, I figured I might as well try to solve it, at least for some people. In 2020, I started a non-profit for small support groups[0]. We're small, and I've been mostly funding it myself, but it's growing. The main issue is we don't have the resources to cover every topic, so it's not for everyone (yet). Happy to chat if you have feedback, email is in my profile. Everything we do is open source too[1]. [0]: https://www.totem.org/ https://www.totem.org/ [1]: https://github.com/totem-technologies/totem-server https://github.com/totem-technologies/totem-server

jasondigitized 9mo ago

Wondering if your results are skewed towards people who are outside and therefore have a higher probability of not being lonely by virtue of them being amongst people.

publicdebates 9mo ago
Definitely, yes. But I figure, the people I'm trying to reach are basically only ever outside when they're talking to the grocery store and back. That's the only time to catch them, if ever. So this is my only shot. I do stand right across the street from the Walgreens too, so I definitely know that I've seen people going there for something quick and back. And many of them pass me regularly, every week. Some of them have stopped and met me and have become "regulars" so to speak, but others have never even made eye contact with me, though I recognize them now. This is of course out of thousands of people, and only on one consistent street corner in Chicago. But we have to start somewhere.

Hnrobert42 9mo ago

> I'm catching up but not all the way there yet. The only thing you have to catch up on is that there is nothing to catch up on. Everyone is at some stage of growth. No one is ever done growing. I am impressed by your surveys. You're being open and engaging the world. That's awesome. Now hearing your story, I'd be happy to engage you or even buy you a coffee to hear the results. Yet if I saw you on the street with a sign, I would likely hustle past. I've lived too long in big cities, and I've developed a crusty shell. So if I pass you by and ignore you, I apologize. I am the one with the problem. :-)