5 ms·

Ask HN: What sucks about snow shovels?

9 points by jmtame 18y ago

I'm tasked with a creative assignment to create a new and original snow shovel. What do you hate about the handle-having bastards?

transburgh 18y ago
it is cold every time I use it ;)
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
ilamont 18y ago
This might be good for snow shovel news, but not Hacker News.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- mixmax 18y ago
  I would see this as an intellectual challenge.
  - ilamont 18y ago
    Maybe, but it sets a precedent for many other OT intellectual challenges. I don't want to water down HN. I like the relatively narrow focus here -- I know that when I come to the front page, there are likely a dozen links or discussions that I will want to read. The same can't be said for other communities with greatly expanded focuses.
    - endlessvoid94 18y ago
      This is why you choose what to upvote and what not to upvote. Just don't vote this up. This is the exact reason that mechanism is in place.
    - pg 18y ago
      But how to change something to make it better is a classic hacker question. In fact that would work well as a definition of hacking: trying to change things to make them better.
      - ilamont 18y ago
        I understand, but my point is, where do you draw the line on this forum? Practically anything can be changed in order to make it better. If people suddently started submitting items about how to design a better frying pan or municipal government pension system, would that be suitable fodder? I realize that online communities develop over time, and some expansion is natural. I am just concerned about how wide the funnel is getting.
        pg 18y ago
        We draw the line in the same place it's always been: at stuff that's interesting to the intellectually curious. Designing a better frying pan would definitely be on topic. Perhaps not municipal pension systems, if most of the constraints you have to satisfy are political ones.
        ilamont 18y ago
        If I may make a suggestion: When I signed up in 2007, I don't recall seeing a welcome page like you have now (or I forgot about it). My impression of the site, based on the title and the popular submitted content on the front page was that it was about programming, startups, and other technology-related topics. Would it be possible to add to the orange bar, right after "Hacker News", the line of text you have above? So, all readers (old and new) see the following: Hacker News: Stuff that's interesting to the intellectually curious I think it will help make the purpose of this site clear to everyone, and hopefully have a positive impact on the comments as well by reminding people that the discussions should have an intellectual component.
- endlessvoid94 18y ago
  Hacker news is about hacking anything, not just code.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago
1. They're not motorized. I have a >300' long driveway and live on top of a hill with wicked winds that drift snow. April snow is wet & heavy. There's a reason I have a snowplow on the lawn tractor! 2. The edges should be sharper to get under bits of ice. 3. Need varying widths: 2' wide for the path to front door; 3' wide to shovel the driveway. Gets annoying switching shovels. 4. Hard to find at night after a big storm. Should be fluorescent. Like I said, there's a reason I have a lawn tractor with a plow blade and another with a snowblowing attachment :-)
- pbrown 18y ago
  As someone who lives in Interior Alaska, I feel your pain. So, to take a cue from you and one from another comment on here: Wouldn't it be great to have a shovel that 1.) Had "wings" on it, similar to a snowplow, that you could fold out to widen the shovel, and fold in to make the shovel narrow, while also making it stronger for chipping ice. and 2.) That you could adjust the angle of the head on for digging vs. lifting vs. picking. I'd buy it.
mooism2 18y ago
On the one week in 18 years that I need to use one, I will either not be able to find my show shovel, or not possess one in the first place.
brk 18y ago
There is usually a compromise made between being optimized for pushing, or optimized for lifting. Some sort of configuration that allowed you to lock the handle so the shovel part was tilted up for pushing, and then you could set the handle to be more upright to lift/throw.
greatreorx 18y ago
The fact that after a certain amount of snow depth, you have to use your back to lift and throw the snow. I was doing some Googling on this out of curiosity and ran into this...http://www.wovel.com http://www.wovel.com which I feel like I've seen before but didn't really understand the advantage. Without seeing the video of it in use, it looks just like a shovel attached to a wheel. But the wheel gives you different leverage points so that you can use your body weight to throw the snow. That wasn't obvious without seeing the video.
bbuffone 18y ago
Being that I used a shovel just this morning, I can think of a couple things: 1.) Snow falls of the end of the shovel. 2.) Can't use the shovel to clean up the car. Need to get a snow brush and if the snow is deep it doesn't work well. 3.) When it snows a lot you need to throw it farther. 4.) Doesn't always get down to the pavement. 5.) The shovel that does the driveway isn't that good for the front steps. 6.) Snow shovels break when you use them to remove ice.
hotshothenry 18y ago
how about a heated shovel?
- ivankirigin 18y ago
  That's a bad idea. Where is the power stored? Are you supposed to slowly carve through the snow? Also, I'd rather not melt the snow, as it turns to ice when refrozen.
pg 18y ago
For me the biggest problem with the classic snow shovel is (was!) that it's not good with ice. It assumes powder. It also assumes a flat surface. So it's good for shoveling newly fallen snow off a concrete suburban driveway, but lousy for clearing a Cambridge sidewalk. Maybe you could design an urban snowshovel. It could be narrower and heavier, like a regular shovel.
- ivankirigin 18y ago
  Just use a regular flat shovel or an ice breaker. Also, this season I've been diligent about shoveling early and often. It saves time in the long run. Luckily we live on a hill, and our snow has some potential energy. I'm growing to really hate New England weather btw.
pedalpete 18y ago
not sure if you've seen the wovel (wovel.com) combining a wheelbarow and a shovel. No longer original, but something you might want to work into your design as it seems a very effective tool.
- jmtame 18y ago
  this is where i got 99% of the inspiration. without thinking it over for a longer time, i can only make marginal improvements on that model. there were a few disadvantages: the flick action can be difficult for older people; no flashlight, no fluorescent handles; design is a little awkward, very big wheel; blade is not modular, fixed width; that's about all i could think of, but they really nailed the concept.
comatose_kid 18y ago
Random thoughts: 1) Pulling is generally easier than pushing. Perhaps this could be helpful in designing a variation. 2) Turn shoveling into a game. Perhaps a small lcd display that keeps track of how many pounds you shoveled, how many calories burned, time spent. Or you could have challenges - eg, shovel 10 times in the next 20 seconds. etc. 3) Could you use an accelerometer to determine if the shoveler had bad posture?
ivankirigin 18y ago
I wouldn't try to change the shovel. It works just fine. Maybe it could use a robot attached to it to automate the process, but both perception and mobility in snow are hard problems. I would try to solve the snow-elimination problem. What the hell do you do with it all? I think something creative with Fresnel lenses, charcoal powder, and thin films would work well.

9 points by jmtame 18y ago

I'm tasked with a creative assignment to create a new and original snow shovel. What do you hate about the handle-having bastards?

transburgh 18y ago

it is cold every time I use it ;)

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

ilamont 18y ago

This might be good for snow shovel news, but not Hacker News.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
mixmax 18y ago
I would see this as an intellectual challenge.
- ilamont 18y ago
  Maybe, but it sets a precedent for many other OT intellectual challenges. I don't want to water down HN. I like the relatively narrow focus here -- I know that when I come to the front page, there are likely a dozen links or discussions that I will want to read. The same can't be said for other communities with greatly expanded focuses.
  - endlessvoid94 18y ago
    This is why you choose what to upvote and what not to upvote. Just don't vote this up. This is the exact reason that mechanism is in place.
  - pg 18y ago
    But how to change something to make it better is a classic hacker question. In fact that would work well as a definition of hacking: trying to change things to make them better.
    - ilamont 18y ago
      I understand, but my point is, where do you draw the line on this forum? Practically anything can be changed in order to make it better. If people suddently started submitting items about how to design a better frying pan or municipal government pension system, would that be suitable fodder? I realize that online communities develop over time, and some expansion is natural. I am just concerned about how wide the funnel is getting.
      - pg 18y ago
        We draw the line in the same place it's always been: at stuff that's interesting to the intellectually curious. Designing a better frying pan would definitely be on topic. Perhaps not municipal pension systems, if most of the constraints you have to satisfy are political ones.
        ilamont 18y ago
        If I may make a suggestion: When I signed up in 2007, I don't recall seeing a welcome page like you have now (or I forgot about it). My impression of the site, based on the title and the popular submitted content on the front page was that it was about programming, startups, and other technology-related topics. Would it be possible to add to the orange bar, right after "Hacker News", the line of text you have above? So, all readers (old and new) see the following: Hacker News: Stuff that's interesting to the intellectually curious I think it will help make the purpose of this site clear to everyone, and hopefully have a positive impact on the comments as well by reminding people that the discussions should have an intellectual component.
endlessvoid94 18y ago
Hacker news is about hacking anything, not just code.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago

1. They're not motorized. I have a >300' long driveway and live on top of a hill with wicked winds that drift snow. April snow is wet & heavy. There's a reason I have a snowplow on the lawn tractor! 2. The edges should be sharper to get under bits of ice. 3. Need varying widths: 2' wide for the path to front door; 3' wide to shovel the driveway. Gets annoying switching shovels. 4. Hard to find at night after a big storm. Should be fluorescent. Like I said, there's a reason I have a lawn tractor with a plow blade and another with a snowblowing attachment :-)

pbrown 18y ago
As someone who lives in Interior Alaska, I feel your pain. So, to take a cue from you and one from another comment on here: Wouldn't it be great to have a shovel that 1.) Had "wings" on it, similar to a snowplow, that you could fold out to widen the shovel, and fold in to make the shovel narrow, while also making it stronger for chipping ice. and 2.) That you could adjust the angle of the head on for digging vs. lifting vs. picking. I'd buy it.

mooism2 18y ago

On the one week in 18 years that I need to use one, I will either not be able to find my show shovel, or not possess one in the first place.

brk 18y ago

There is usually a compromise made between being optimized for pushing, or optimized for lifting. Some sort of configuration that allowed you to lock the handle so the shovel part was tilted up for pushing, and then you could set the handle to be more upright to lift/throw.

greatreorx 18y ago

The fact that after a certain amount of snow depth, you have to use your back to lift and throw the snow. I was doing some Googling on this out of curiosity and ran into this...http://www.wovel.com http://www.wovel.com which I feel like I've seen before but didn't really understand the advantage. Without seeing the video of it in use, it looks just like a shovel attached to a wheel. But the wheel gives you different leverage points so that you can use your body weight to throw the snow. That wasn't obvious without seeing the video.

bbuffone 18y ago

Being that I used a shovel just this morning, I can think of a couple things: 1.) Snow falls of the end of the shovel. 2.) Can't use the shovel to clean up the car. Need to get a snow brush and if the snow is deep it doesn't work well. 3.) When it snows a lot you need to throw it farther. 4.) Doesn't always get down to the pavement. 5.) The shovel that does the driveway isn't that good for the front steps. 6.) Snow shovels break when you use them to remove ice.

hotshothenry 18y ago

how about a heated shovel?

ivankirigin 18y ago
That's a bad idea. Where is the power stored? Are you supposed to slowly carve through the snow? Also, I'd rather not melt the snow, as it turns to ice when refrozen.

pg 18y ago

For me the biggest problem with the classic snow shovel is (was!) that it's not good with ice. It assumes powder. It also assumes a flat surface. So it's good for shoveling newly fallen snow off a concrete suburban driveway, but lousy for clearing a Cambridge sidewalk. Maybe you could design an urban snowshovel. It could be narrower and heavier, like a regular shovel.

ivankirigin 18y ago
Just use a regular flat shovel or an ice breaker. Also, this season I've been diligent about shoveling early and often. It saves time in the long run. Luckily we live on a hill, and our snow has some potential energy. I'm growing to really hate New England weather btw.

pedalpete 18y ago

not sure if you've seen the wovel (wovel.com) combining a wheelbarow and a shovel. No longer original, but something you might want to work into your design as it seems a very effective tool.

jmtame 18y ago
this is where i got 99% of the inspiration. without thinking it over for a longer time, i can only make marginal improvements on that model. there were a few disadvantages: the flick action can be difficult for older people; no flashlight, no fluorescent handles; design is a little awkward, very big wheel; blade is not modular, fixed width; that's about all i could think of, but they really nailed the concept.

comatose_kid 18y ago

Random thoughts: 1) Pulling is generally easier than pushing. Perhaps this could be helpful in designing a variation. 2) Turn shoveling into a game. Perhaps a small lcd display that keeps track of how many pounds you shoveled, how many calories burned, time spent. Or you could have challenges - eg, shovel 10 times in the next 20 seconds. etc. 3) Could you use an accelerometer to determine if the shoveler had bad posture?

ivankirigin 18y ago

I wouldn't try to change the shovel. It works just fine. Maybe it could use a robot attached to it to automate the process, but both perception and mobility in snow are hard problems. I would try to solve the snow-elimination problem. What the hell do you do with it all? I think something creative with Fresnel lenses, charcoal powder, and thin films would work well.