4 ms·

Yep, that dipshit doesnt even grasp his own arguments implications. When Kamala Harris left you no choice but to vote for Trump (bEcAu5e Sh3 1s eVEn wORs3!!1)

Yep, that dipshit doesnt even grasp his own arguments implications. When Kamala Harris left you no choice but to vote for Trump (bEcAu5e Sh3 1s eVEn wORs3!!1) then the problem is on the republicans side to bring up better candidates. When your political opponent makes mistakes, dont try to correct it, yet, all he talks about is what the dems should do. I cant fathom how twisted these minds must be.

palmotea 9mo ago
> then the problem is on the republicans side to bring up better candidates. Look: the Republicans are terrible, but Democrats have this bad habit of using that as an excuse to cover up their own shortcomings. They blame MAGA, blame Trump for not being better, instead of looking in the mirror and becoming a party that people like enough that it can win. Any party that can't win handily against Trump, especially after all the scary warnings, is unfathomably incompetent and dysfunctional. IMHO a key part of that is that the party is beholden to ideologues on the far edge of the mainstream who keep it on a losing course. For instance: we wouldn't be in this mess if "farm state Democrat" was a category that was still allowed to exist. I watched one of the last of those fall, and it appeared she was hemmed in by ideological out-of-state donors who prevented her from adapting to local conditions.
- throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
  But what if these "local conditions" are the actual problem? The left has generally two sides, the intelletual and emphatic side and the identity politics side about gender, etc. The right has only identity politics, decorated with fabricated bullshit to have a clear enemy/outgroup. The left has actual constructive suggestions for improvement while the right fear mongers about in/out groups. The democrats in total are certainly not perfect, esp. the old guard, that mostly fails to oppose trump proportionally to his megalomania. But there are (young) democrats that are _clearly_ better candidates and the internal frictions (sanders, mamdani) to unsuccessfully suppress them by the donor class clearly shows you which party is less corrupt. Intellectual leftists have the problem that realitys complexity works against them while right wingers can just summon the next boogeyman. Republican voters are _literaly_ programmed on their enemy stereotypes! "Extreme left", "marxist/socialist/communist", down to, "critical race theory", "war on christmas", etc. All these cheap negative labels get thrown around to terminate critical thought and vote as the tribe does. That is the actual problem to fix and it is on the right! Today, dipshits still run around arguing, that "this is what i voted for", while poverty, healthcare, etc. are still the most pressing issues. As long as democracies somewhat reflect the populus, democracies cannot fail by definition. When the dipshits dont get their heads cleared and educate themsels, eg. about actual migrant crime rates and their economic contribution, _they will fall for the next populist with the simpler 'answers'._
  - palmotea 9mo ago
    > But what if these "local conditions" are the actual problem? They are not. I thought we were defending democracy? "Adapting to local conditions" means representing your constituents, not kowtowing to some far off group and lecturing your constituents that they really should want want you're offering. One of the Democrats' problems is, ironically, a lack of diversity. > Republican voters are _literaly_ programmed on their enemy stereotypes! That kind of othering thinking is a pretty serious problem. If you think in such an unempathetic way, you're going to delude yourself. Your side isn't all kindness and light, and their side isn't all hateful automatons. You are all people, for fucks sake. How the fuck different are you really? Actually not much.
    - throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
      Oh, I am talking about democracies and lecturing. You are right, i have to be very careful with my othering/stereotypes but given the current state of afairs, i think im in a strong position to do so. Trump would have never gotten my vote. My take about democracies not failing meant, only the people in it can fail. There is certainly some civic due diligence for electoral decisions. My tribalism discerns between people who at least try to come to an educated decision and dipshits. Ask yourself, why putin might start to love _our_ democracies again. You could easily be better represented by some outsider convincingly lecturing you on important topics you didnt know you should care about, if you just cared to listen and think.
- watwut 9mo ago
  > They blame MAGA, blame Trump for not being better, instead of looking in the mirror and becoming a party that people like enough that it can win. Democrats should blame MAGA and Trump more. No amount of rational policy messaging will help against MAGA and Trump when you let them set the framing. All of this is caused by MAGA and Trump. Not by democrats. By republicans and especially conservatives. It is ridiculous abuser logic to blame your immoral choices on opposition for not opposing you better. Right wing people, including farm people, should have own moral agency. They are not toddlers and yes they should be blamed. > especially after all the scary warnings, is unfathomably incompetent and dysfunctional None of that was scary to republicans and conservatives. They found the warning appealing. > we wouldn't be in this mess if "farm state Democrat" was a category that was still allowed to exist. I watched one of the last of those fall, and it appeared she was hemmed in by ideological out-of-state donors who prevented her from adapting to local conditions. Oh please. Yes we would, in fact we would be in the bigger mess. We would had two fascist parties instead of one. The local conditions are: must hate and badmount cities at every occasion, must be attracted to violence, must have wish to mistreat liberals and everyone to the left of Trump. Because if farms voted by their economic interests, they would not voted for Trump. They voted for them because they share the values.
  - palmotea 9mo ago
    > Democrats should blame MAGA and Trump more. No amount of rational policy messaging will help against MAGA and Trump when you let them set the framing. All of this is caused by MAGA and Trump. Not by democrats. By republicans and especially conservatives. Sorry, they've done that so much that people have become deaf to it. > It is ridiculous abuser logic to blame your immoral choices on opposition for not opposing you better. Right wing people, including farm people, should have own moral agency. They are not toddlers and yes they should be blamed. Thinking like yours is a big reason the Democrats lose. "Me, change to become more effective? Of course not! Here's some moralistic gesticulating to justify myself." You basically want to lean all in on negative campaigning. But bashing the other side doesn't cause people to support you. However, it's a really seductive option when you're unpopular and refuse to change. It's not a strategy, it's a cope. > Oh please. Yes we would, in fact we would be in the bigger mess. We would had two fascist parties instead of one. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Despite your intentions, you're probably helping MAGA more than you hurt it.

palmotea 9mo ago

> then the problem is on the republicans side to bring up better candidates. Look: the Republicans are terrible, but Democrats have this bad habit of using that as an excuse to cover up their own shortcomings. They blame MAGA, blame Trump for not being better, instead of looking in the mirror and becoming a party that people like enough that it can win. Any party that can't win handily against Trump, especially after all the scary warnings, is unfathomably incompetent and dysfunctional. IMHO a key part of that is that the party is beholden to ideologues on the far edge of the mainstream who keep it on a losing course. For instance: we wouldn't be in this mess if "farm state Democrat" was a category that was still allowed to exist. I watched one of the last of those fall, and it appeared she was hemmed in by ideological out-of-state donors who prevented her from adapting to local conditions.

throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
But what if these "local conditions" are the actual problem? The left has generally two sides, the intelletual and emphatic side and the identity politics side about gender, etc. The right has only identity politics, decorated with fabricated bullshit to have a clear enemy/outgroup. The left has actual constructive suggestions for improvement while the right fear mongers about in/out groups. The democrats in total are certainly not perfect, esp. the old guard, that mostly fails to oppose trump proportionally to his megalomania. But there are (young) democrats that are _clearly_ better candidates and the internal frictions (sanders, mamdani) to unsuccessfully suppress them by the donor class clearly shows you which party is less corrupt. Intellectual leftists have the problem that realitys complexity works against them while right wingers can just summon the next boogeyman. Republican voters are _literaly_ programmed on their enemy stereotypes! "Extreme left", "marxist/socialist/communist", down to, "critical race theory", "war on christmas", etc. All these cheap negative labels get thrown around to terminate critical thought and vote as the tribe does. That is the actual problem to fix and it is on the right! Today, dipshits still run around arguing, that "this is what i voted for", while poverty, healthcare, etc. are still the most pressing issues. As long as democracies somewhat reflect the populus, democracies cannot fail by definition. When the dipshits dont get their heads cleared and educate themsels, eg. about actual migrant crime rates and their economic contribution, _they will fall for the next populist with the simpler 'answers'._
- palmotea 9mo ago
  > But what if these "local conditions" are the actual problem? They are not. I thought we were defending democracy? "Adapting to local conditions" means representing your constituents, not kowtowing to some far off group and lecturing your constituents that they really should want want you're offering. One of the Democrats' problems is, ironically, a lack of diversity. > Republican voters are _literaly_ programmed on their enemy stereotypes! That kind of othering thinking is a pretty serious problem. If you think in such an unempathetic way, you're going to delude yourself. Your side isn't all kindness and light, and their side isn't all hateful automatons. You are all people, for fucks sake. How the fuck different are you really? Actually not much.
  - throwawayqqq11 9mo ago
    Oh, I am talking about democracies and lecturing. You are right, i have to be very careful with my othering/stereotypes but given the current state of afairs, i think im in a strong position to do so. Trump would have never gotten my vote. My take about democracies not failing meant, only the people in it can fail. There is certainly some civic due diligence for electoral decisions. My tribalism discerns between people who at least try to come to an educated decision and dipshits. Ask yourself, why putin might start to love _our_ democracies again. You could easily be better represented by some outsider convincingly lecturing you on important topics you didnt know you should care about, if you just cared to listen and think.
watwut 9mo ago
> They blame MAGA, blame Trump for not being better, instead of looking in the mirror and becoming a party that people like enough that it can win. Democrats should blame MAGA and Trump more. No amount of rational policy messaging will help against MAGA and Trump when you let them set the framing. All of this is caused by MAGA and Trump. Not by democrats. By republicans and especially conservatives. It is ridiculous abuser logic to blame your immoral choices on opposition for not opposing you better. Right wing people, including farm people, should have own moral agency. They are not toddlers and yes they should be blamed. > especially after all the scary warnings, is unfathomably incompetent and dysfunctional None of that was scary to republicans and conservatives. They found the warning appealing. > we wouldn't be in this mess if "farm state Democrat" was a category that was still allowed to exist. I watched one of the last of those fall, and it appeared she was hemmed in by ideological out-of-state donors who prevented her from adapting to local conditions. Oh please. Yes we would, in fact we would be in the bigger mess. We would had two fascist parties instead of one. The local conditions are: must hate and badmount cities at every occasion, must be attracted to violence, must have wish to mistreat liberals and everyone to the left of Trump. Because if farms voted by their economic interests, they would not voted for Trump. They voted for them because they share the values.
- palmotea 9mo ago
  > Democrats should blame MAGA and Trump more. No amount of rational policy messaging will help against MAGA and Trump when you let them set the framing. All of this is caused by MAGA and Trump. Not by democrats. By republicans and especially conservatives. Sorry, they've done that so much that people have become deaf to it. > It is ridiculous abuser logic to blame your immoral choices on opposition for not opposing you better. Right wing people, including farm people, should have own moral agency. They are not toddlers and yes they should be blamed. Thinking like yours is a big reason the Democrats lose. "Me, change to become more effective? Of course not! Here's some moralistic gesticulating to justify myself." You basically want to lean all in on negative campaigning. But bashing the other side doesn't cause people to support you. However, it's a really seductive option when you're unpopular and refuse to change. It's not a strategy, it's a cope. > Oh please. Yes we would, in fact we would be in the bigger mess. We would had two fascist parties instead of one. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Despite your intentions, you're probably helping MAGA more than you hurt it.