5 ms·

Walt Mossberg's Windows 8 Review

36 points by martingordon 14y ago

protomyth 14y ago
"The only major program that will run there will be a new version of Office, modified to work on these machines and lacking Outlook." The new tablets don't have Outlook? Do they do mail and can they hook to exchange?
- ghurlman 14y ago
  Yes, the Metro apps cover email and calendaring, and connect quite easily to Exchange, Hotmail, Yahoo, and Google.
- andrewmunsell 14y ago
  There's a mail app that supports IMAP and EAS
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- nhebb 14y ago
  It may be a ploy to get users to switch to Office 365, which does include Outlook. Since Office 365 is subscription based, it will be more profitable to Microsoft in the long run.
tomhschmidt 14y ago
This was more of a restatement of the press release than a review.
- undergroundhero 14y ago
  That was exactly how I felt reading it. Very little detail and no criticism. It was a page-long description of Windows 8 that offered no unique perspective of how it feels to use the new OS.
cjc1083 14y ago
Windows has always been the base OS on my home computers. I've used a separate ESXi box, or local virtual box VMs for development. Thus far windows 8 tells me that it is time for me to shift totally to Linux and just sacrifice gaming, which was the sole reason I held onto my windows 7 environment on my primary home PC's. I also dread the day I will have to deal with it at work. I have between 20-30 windows open at any given time with anything from ArcSight to multiple putty sessions running. How will that possibly translate to this blocky touch screen interface? I can't be alone in this feeling, although I do feel a bit like the old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn.. I really can't stand this environment and
- HarshaThota 14y ago
  You know that the regular desktop interface is still there, just as it was in Windows 7, Vista, etc., right? You could be using Windows 8 and never have to see the Metro interface, save for when you are doing a search for an app.
  - rbn 14y ago
    People have been saying these types of comments since Windows 95
  - sigkill 14y ago
    As someone who's been using Windows 8 since it launched on technet, I would like to politely disagree with you. >never have to see the Metro interface This is a total exaggeration. When you boot up, Metro. Want to go to start and launch a program (like 99% of the general public would do)? Metro. Certain PC settings not available on the control panel? Metro. Accidentally click on the corners of the screen? Metro. My main gripe is that the computer boots into Metro with desktop as an option instead of the inverse.
  - throwaway64 14y ago
    the problen with this viewpoint is that metro represents a fundamental shift in the window system. Stuff like appstore only, forced sandboxing and tons of restrictions that have never been an issue on windows before. Microsoft has made it very clear this is how they think everything windows should be moving forward. Desktop mode might be there for now, but how comfortable should a user remain when everything that gives the system value for them just got marked "legacy" I for one am moving away from windows as much as i can
Luyt 14y ago
The video shows people interacting with a vertical touch-screen. For short amounts of time, like getting money from an ATM, this works OK, but for prolonged usage like working on office documents, it leads to Gorilla Arm [1]. I'm afraid people will find out the hard way and will get desillusioned about their touchscreen user experience. Why doesn't Microsoft foresee this? From the Jargon File: "Gorilla Arm: The side-effect that destroyed touch-screens as a mainstream input technology despite a promising start in the early 1980s. It seems the designers of all those spiffy touch-menu systems failed to notice that humans aren't designed to hold their arms in front of their faces making small motions. After more than a very few selections, the arm begins to feel sore, cramped, and oversized — the operator looks like a gorilla while using the touch screen and feels like one afterwards. This is now considered a classic cautionary tale to human-factors designers; “Remember the gorilla arm!” is shorthand for “How is this going to fly in real use?”. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_arm#.22Gorilla_arm.22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_arm#.22Gorilla_arm.22
- notatoad 14y ago
  The vertical touch screen use case will really only be a factor at kiosk-type installations, which have a short usage time. Any extended use is going to be done on a laptop or desktop, which has a trackpad or mouse to fall back to if it even has a touchscreen, or a tablet, which can be held in an ergonomic manner. You seem to be inventing a form factor that Microsoft isn't promoting, just to be able to criticize it.
  - aggronn 14y ago
    I don't think that's necessarily true, though I disagree with the GP. He mentioned in the video, and they're already demoing this at places like best buy, ultrabooks will be coming out with touch screens en masse once windowes 8 is released. A lot of them pivot, but after using one briefly in a normal mode, I found that I was clicking smaller things with the trackpad, but that for big things (like the start screen), it was much more convenient to quickly flick the screen than to go and use my dexterity on the trackpad. you wouldn't use touch in office, for example, but you might use it for navigating around the operating system quickly and easily.
lifeguard 14y ago
" it’s not just a menu, it’s a whole computing environment "
colmvp 14y ago
I tried out Windows 8 on a laptop a few weeks ago. I used to use Windows extensively (3.1, 95, 98, XP) before eventually switching to OSX. Some things I like: - Transitions between windows are super fast and smooth. - Style is clean and lightweight. A distinctive approach. Things that made me uncomfortable: - No Start button (although you can download 3rd party programs to bring it back) - Trying to have two windows next to one another felt much harder to accomplish. Using Snap! just felt way more complicated than what'd you normally do in Windows/OSX. - Start-up screen is kind of overwhelming and inefficient. It's a cool concept but the variety of boxes just makes it hard to interpret information quickly. It reminds me of iGoogle. I just don't need all that information at once. - Some of the features are hidden and require a lot of exploring to get it right, like remembering which corner does what when your mouse moves there. I've never found those type of mouse gestures intuitive. But I should note that I've spent decades learning one paradigm so this could very well work with a younger generation that isn't as married to a UI concept.
- mariusmg 14y ago
  "No Start button" Great thing actually. Instead of hitting start and fumbling with the mouse to find a certain app, you just start typing the app name, press Enter and done. "Start-up screen is kind of overwhelming and inefficient". The new start screen is basically a launcher + notification. You can always turn live tiles off and get a static screen. "Some of the features are hidden and require a lot of exploring to get it right" Win+C to show the charms bar, win+shift+. to dock/undock app to right side. No need to even move the mouse.
  - gman99 14y ago
    >>Instead of hitting start and fumbling with the mouse to find a certain app, you just start typing the app name, press Enter and done. Isn't this exactly the same as in windows 7? Hit start button and start typing? The only real difference is that the start menu is now full screen and the small icons have been replaced with constantly updating "tiles". I'd rather I had the choice of a traditional start menu, but then you always have the option of booting direct to desktop and pinning the common apps to the taskbar. So not really sure what the fuss is about.
HardyLeung 14y ago
I have been running Windows 8 (RTM version) on my laptop for two weeks (as I am a MSDN subscriber, thanks to BizSpark). The Metro interface is cute but after a while, I am completely back to the Desktop environment. To my surprise, it is exactly like Windows 7, minus the start menu. I even wonder whether this is because I upgraded from Windows 7? So I would say, if you are worried that it'll destroy your Windows experience as you know it, don't. It's still there. Really still there, with some minor improvements (e.g. task menu). If I didn't get this for free, I would have felt cheated (as in, this is just an UI skin over my existing Windows 7). What I miss the most is the start menu, and I guess I'll download some start-menu app to replace that. I don't use my laptop as a tablet so I can't comment on the Metro interface, other than that it's fluid (like the Windows Phone). I don't see there is any chance I'd buy the Surface RT though... The App Store is very limiting at this point. But then, I am not their RT audience.
- barrkel 14y ago
  For Start Menu, I've been getting along well with http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ - but I use it in Windows 7 too.
  - jeswin 14y ago
    Isn't it easier to use the keyboard (eg: Start + 'Exce.. + Enter) to launch apps, than go to the mouse? Most ubuntu users had a similar transition, when they moved from gnome to unity. It isn't that bad; or even at all.
    - HardyLeung 14y ago
      Yes now I can getting use to this. I agree this is not bad way to start.
    - barrkel 14y ago
      If my hand is on the keyboard, it's easier to use the terminal. (Classic shell still has the search feature. But often I launch apps before remembering their name - I'm a big user of apropos to recall commands. I remember locations. May be a difference in cognitive style.)
pixie_ 14y ago
Every rational developer at Microsoft must be screaming in their heads, but can't say anything because god knows how many levels of management have beat the will power out of them to speak out about the horrible decision of making the start menu a full screen affair. It's funny having watched this horrible design decision keep going on for a year now. It's only going to get worse once windows 8 is released. It's been like watching a train wreck in very very slow motion.
- ladzoppelin 14y ago
  I love Windows 8 and think its the best one yet because of the design and detail. If you can't recognize the good changes made to the regular desktop it's probably because you have already made up your mind to not like Windows 8. Hyper-V mode is also another reason why I am upgrading to a new laptop in a month.
Derbasti 14y ago
I think the defining feature of Windows 8 will be its transformability. On the go, you will use it in tablet mode, like an iPad. But at home or at work, you will put it into some kind of docking station and it will connect to your monitor, mouse and keyboard and you will use it like your desktop today. While the contrast between those two modes (Metro vs. Desktop) is kind of jarring, the utility of having both interfaces available at all time is a major boon that no current tablet or tradional laptop can match. The point here is that you can substitute one Windows 8 device for both your tablet and your desktop, without sacrificing either. This is something I look forward to and I am willing to pay the usability price for. That said, I don't see tablets being powerful enough for my kind of work just yet. But they will get there, eventually.
andrewfelix 14y ago
Windows 8 looks gorgeous. For everyday use I'm sure it works great. However outside of email I generally only use a text editor and a large portion of the Adobe suite. At best, for me, it looks like the new Metro interface will be little more than a novelty. At worst it will be a hindrance. Never thought I'd say it; But after 13 years with Windows, I'm switching to Mac
metatronscube 14y ago
As far as Windows 8 goes, I have already made up my mind. This is the 'review' that sealed the deal for me http://youtu.be/X0fsyb-ttcw http://youtu.be/X0fsyb-ttcw

36 points by martingordon 14y ago

"The only major program that will run there will be a new version of Office, modified to work on these machines and lacking Outlook." The new tablets don't have Outlook? Do they do mail and can they hook to exchange?

ghurlman 14y ago
Yes, the Metro apps cover email and calendaring, and connect quite easily to Exchange, Hotmail, Yahoo, and Google.
andrewmunsell 14y ago
There's a mail app that supports IMAP and EAS
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
nhebb 14y ago
It may be a ploy to get users to switch to Office 365, which does include Outlook. Since Office 365 is subscription based, it will be more profitable to Microsoft in the long run.

tomhschmidt 14y ago

This was more of a restatement of the press release than a review.

undergroundhero 14y ago
That was exactly how I felt reading it. Very little detail and no criticism. It was a page-long description of Windows 8 that offered no unique perspective of how it feels to use the new OS.

cjc1083 14y ago

Windows has always been the base OS on my home computers. I've used a separate ESXi box, or local virtual box VMs for development. Thus far windows 8 tells me that it is time for me to shift totally to Linux and just sacrifice gaming, which was the sole reason I held onto my windows 7 environment on my primary home PC's. I also dread the day I will have to deal with it at work. I have between 20-30 windows open at any given time with anything from ArcSight to multiple putty sessions running. How will that possibly translate to this blocky touch screen interface? I can't be alone in this feeling, although I do feel a bit like the old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn.. I really can't stand this environment and

HarshaThota 14y ago
You know that the regular desktop interface is still there, just as it was in Windows 7, Vista, etc., right? You could be using Windows 8 and never have to see the Metro interface, save for when you are doing a search for an app.
- rbn 14y ago
  People have been saying these types of comments since Windows 95
- sigkill 14y ago
  As someone who's been using Windows 8 since it launched on technet, I would like to politely disagree with you. >never have to see the Metro interface This is a total exaggeration. When you boot up, Metro. Want to go to start and launch a program (like 99% of the general public would do)? Metro. Certain PC settings not available on the control panel? Metro. Accidentally click on the corners of the screen? Metro. My main gripe is that the computer boots into Metro with desktop as an option instead of the inverse.
- throwaway64 14y ago
  the problen with this viewpoint is that metro represents a fundamental shift in the window system. Stuff like appstore only, forced sandboxing and tons of restrictions that have never been an issue on windows before. Microsoft has made it very clear this is how they think everything windows should be moving forward. Desktop mode might be there for now, but how comfortable should a user remain when everything that gives the system value for them just got marked "legacy" I for one am moving away from windows as much as i can

Luyt 14y ago

The video shows people interacting with a vertical touch-screen. For short amounts of time, like getting money from an ATM, this works OK, but for prolonged usage like working on office documents, it leads to Gorilla Arm [1]. I'm afraid people will find out the hard way and will get desillusioned about their touchscreen user experience. Why doesn't Microsoft foresee this? From the Jargon File: "Gorilla Arm: The side-effect that destroyed touch-screens as a mainstream input technology despite a promising start in the early 1980s. It seems the designers of all those spiffy touch-menu systems failed to notice that humans aren't designed to hold their arms in front of their faces making small motions. After more than a very few selections, the arm begins to feel sore, cramped, and oversized — the operator looks like a gorilla while using the touch screen and feels like one afterwards. This is now considered a classic cautionary tale to human-factors designers; “Remember the gorilla arm!” is shorthand for “How is this going to fly in real use?”. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_arm#.22Gorilla_arm.22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_arm#.22Gorilla_arm.22

notatoad 14y ago
The vertical touch screen use case will really only be a factor at kiosk-type installations, which have a short usage time. Any extended use is going to be done on a laptop or desktop, which has a trackpad or mouse to fall back to if it even has a touchscreen, or a tablet, which can be held in an ergonomic manner. You seem to be inventing a form factor that Microsoft isn't promoting, just to be able to criticize it.
- aggronn 14y ago
  I don't think that's necessarily true, though I disagree with the GP. He mentioned in the video, and they're already demoing this at places like best buy, ultrabooks will be coming out with touch screens en masse once windowes 8 is released. A lot of them pivot, but after using one briefly in a normal mode, I found that I was clicking smaller things with the trackpad, but that for big things (like the start screen), it was much more convenient to quickly flick the screen than to go and use my dexterity on the trackpad. you wouldn't use touch in office, for example, but you might use it for navigating around the operating system quickly and easily.

lifeguard 14y ago

" it’s not just a menu, it’s a whole computing environment "

colmvp 14y ago

I tried out Windows 8 on a laptop a few weeks ago. I used to use Windows extensively (3.1, 95, 98, XP) before eventually switching to OSX. Some things I like: - Transitions between windows are super fast and smooth. - Style is clean and lightweight. A distinctive approach. Things that made me uncomfortable: - No Start button (although you can download 3rd party programs to bring it back) - Trying to have two windows next to one another felt much harder to accomplish. Using Snap! just felt way more complicated than what'd you normally do in Windows/OSX. - Start-up screen is kind of overwhelming and inefficient. It's a cool concept but the variety of boxes just makes it hard to interpret information quickly. It reminds me of iGoogle. I just don't need all that information at once. - Some of the features are hidden and require a lot of exploring to get it right, like remembering which corner does what when your mouse moves there. I've never found those type of mouse gestures intuitive. But I should note that I've spent decades learning one paradigm so this could very well work with a younger generation that isn't as married to a UI concept.

mariusmg 14y ago
"No Start button" Great thing actually. Instead of hitting start and fumbling with the mouse to find a certain app, you just start typing the app name, press Enter and done. "Start-up screen is kind of overwhelming and inefficient". The new start screen is basically a launcher + notification. You can always turn live tiles off and get a static screen. "Some of the features are hidden and require a lot of exploring to get it right" Win+C to show the charms bar, win+shift+. to dock/undock app to right side. No need to even move the mouse.
- gman99 14y ago
  >>Instead of hitting start and fumbling with the mouse to find a certain app, you just start typing the app name, press Enter and done. Isn't this exactly the same as in windows 7? Hit start button and start typing? The only real difference is that the start menu is now full screen and the small icons have been replaced with constantly updating "tiles". I'd rather I had the choice of a traditional start menu, but then you always have the option of booting direct to desktop and pinning the common apps to the taskbar. So not really sure what the fuss is about.

HardyLeung 14y ago

I have been running Windows 8 (RTM version) on my laptop for two weeks (as I am a MSDN subscriber, thanks to BizSpark). The Metro interface is cute but after a while, I am completely back to the Desktop environment. To my surprise, it is exactly like Windows 7, minus the start menu. I even wonder whether this is because I upgraded from Windows 7? So I would say, if you are worried that it'll destroy your Windows experience as you know it, don't. It's still there. Really still there, with some minor improvements (e.g. task menu). If I didn't get this for free, I would have felt cheated (as in, this is just an UI skin over my existing Windows 7). What I miss the most is the start menu, and I guess I'll download some start-menu app to replace that. I don't use my laptop as a tablet so I can't comment on the Metro interface, other than that it's fluid (like the Windows Phone). I don't see there is any chance I'd buy the Surface RT though... The App Store is very limiting at this point. But then, I am not their RT audience.

barrkel 14y ago
For Start Menu, I've been getting along well with http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ - but I use it in Windows 7 too.
- jeswin 14y ago
  Isn't it easier to use the keyboard (eg: Start + 'Exce.. + Enter) to launch apps, than go to the mouse? Most ubuntu users had a similar transition, when they moved from gnome to unity. It isn't that bad; or even at all.
  - HardyLeung 14y ago
    Yes now I can getting use to this. I agree this is not bad way to start.
  - barrkel 14y ago
    If my hand is on the keyboard, it's easier to use the terminal. (Classic shell still has the search feature. But often I launch apps before remembering their name - I'm a big user of apropos to recall commands. I remember locations. May be a difference in cognitive style.)

pixie_ 14y ago

Every rational developer at Microsoft must be screaming in their heads, but can't say anything because god knows how many levels of management have beat the will power out of them to speak out about the horrible decision of making the start menu a full screen affair. It's funny having watched this horrible design decision keep going on for a year now. It's only going to get worse once windows 8 is released. It's been like watching a train wreck in very very slow motion.

ladzoppelin 14y ago
I love Windows 8 and think its the best one yet because of the design and detail. If you can't recognize the good changes made to the regular desktop it's probably because you have already made up your mind to not like Windows 8. Hyper-V mode is also another reason why I am upgrading to a new laptop in a month.

Derbasti 14y ago

I think the defining feature of Windows 8 will be its transformability. On the go, you will use it in tablet mode, like an iPad. But at home or at work, you will put it into some kind of docking station and it will connect to your monitor, mouse and keyboard and you will use it like your desktop today. While the contrast between those two modes (Metro vs. Desktop) is kind of jarring, the utility of having both interfaces available at all time is a major boon that no current tablet or tradional laptop can match. The point here is that you can substitute one Windows 8 device for both your tablet and your desktop, without sacrificing either. This is something I look forward to and I am willing to pay the usability price for. That said, I don't see tablets being powerful enough for my kind of work just yet. But they will get there, eventually.

andrewfelix 14y ago

Windows 8 looks gorgeous. For everyday use I'm sure it works great. However outside of email I generally only use a text editor and a large portion of the Adobe suite. At best, for me, it looks like the new Metro interface will be little more than a novelty. At worst it will be a hindrance. Never thought I'd say it; But after 13 years with Windows, I'm switching to Mac

metatronscube 14y ago

As far as Windows 8 goes, I have already made up my mind. This is the 'review' that sealed the deal for me http://youtu.be/X0fsyb-ttcw http://youtu.be/X0fsyb-ttcw