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> I'm sure they can do more. I'm just not sure "more" has anything to do with dragging windows around. You get one Mac "window", with all your other windows ja

> I'm sure they can do more. I'm just not sure "more" has anything to do with dragging windows around. You get one Mac "window", with all your other windows jammed into it, as is necessary for physical screens, but entirely unnecessary for real 3D space. Those "windows" could be frames containing three dimensional graphs, design structures, the list goes on and on. The combo of eye selection, gestures + keyboard and trackpad are already wonderful. They need a little smoothing out, but work great already. The contrast in power between Mac-in-Vision vs. the iPad-like-apps in Vision is dismal. The former is power but artificially flat and constrained, the latter is toy but with huge interface potential. The obvious software imposed (not hardware) gap in the middle, when using both, is enormous. The device is made for so much more. As in, real computing in the "spacial computing". Otherwise, it is just a toy or an expensive Mac screen replacement. A waste of what should be a huge new category win for Apple.

GrowingSideways 9mo ago
Man, I just want to code from a more relaxing neck angle. I don't think all this is going to be very useful for that. I'm sure these ideas will be useful for something, but.... people have been talking about minority report for decades and trying to materialize it always ends up wasting attention processing too much at once.
- Nevermark 9mo ago
  For whatever reason, Apple delivered the hardware. But kneecapped the software. They seem to see everything since the iPhone as a kiosk first, computer second. Which makes some degree of sense, Mac with keyboard/trackpad assumed vs. iOS/touch (with optional keyboard/trackpad) and covering many smaller sized screens. But the Vision has much wider interface and interaction potential than Mac, not less. If Apple would let the Pro version of Vision, be a Spacial Mac. The new power high end. (With a Vision Air, for the iOS-like, consumer, lower end market.)
  - satvikpendem 9mo ago
    Well, how else are they going to keep up their services revenue? Because at the end of the day, that's why they created the walled garden in the first place.
- wolvoleo 9mo ago
  > Man, I just want to code from a more relaxing neck angle. Then just get an Xreal air. You can buy 20 of them for the price of one vision pro, and they work great as a simple display.
  - bookofjoe 9mo ago
    $3,500 divided by $199[https://www.rayneo.com/products/rayneo-air-3s-xr-glasses?variant=50763884724511&dm_cam=23264128516&dm_grp=&dm_ad=&dm_kw=&dm_net=adwords&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23259900167&gbraid=0AAAAAqVzIIoPI0qQfX83--UkeLV2jCwr_&gclid=CjwKCAiA4KfLBhB0EiwAUY7GAeXq9DsiFsS7iF1-0zcby9InY6sJdWnNhxx37Z8ID1V4InhwU_BbyhoCjswQAvD_BwE https://www.rayneo.com/products/rayneo-air-3s-xr-glasses?var...] = 17: close enough!
    - wolvoleo 9mo ago
      Oh yeah I was going by European prices where the AVP is more than 4000€ including VAT and my xreal air was 199€ also including VAT
      - bookofjoe 9mo ago
        Still close enough!
- glompers 9mo ago
  Orators learned the "palace of memory" trick for remembering long speeches. In that same vein, then, it does seem less demanding to simply be able to see where you put things. Whether that's done by walking around, or just by glancing around on a 3D overlay (as suggested above for the Vision Pro), I like neither to have to search through stacks or folders of icons, nor to use Spotlight search fields. But perhaps the different types of cognitive loads result in what some people call different personal organizational styles or preferences. The "Clutterbug"[0] quadrant taxonomy comes to mind. [0] https://clutterbug.me/what-clutterbug-are-you-test https://clutterbug.me/what-clutterbug-are-you-test
  - Nevermark 9mo ago
    Good points. There really is an amazing untapped space of ideas on how to better navigate information. Even in 2D interfaces, simple things: folders that looked fatter log-relative to how much they contain would add useful context and associative cues, and positive/subjective feelings of "real" recognizable locations vs. just a recursive "interface", when tap-tapping through folders. An idea I implemented: I hide a ".home" (zero byte) file in macOS folders I view as being at the top of a folder hierarchy. Then created a button in the finder toolbar that looks like a house. I can drill down a few folder layers, then pop right back to the hierarchy top by clicking the house button. Just a simple thing. Ordinary users would understand the value of designating "home" folders. And once you have it you can't live without it. For 3D: I think traversable "Spaces" on screens were a great interface idea, done half way. and ripe for 3D extension. A space should be something that can be named, opened, closed, opened on another synced device, opened two years later. Duplicated or branched. I.e. a living persistent active project state of an open work state. With sub-spaces, for sub-projects, that can quickly be zoomed in and out of. The latter would magnify the benefits of working on many different projects in a 3D environment, where having many things open and visible is really helpful, but laborious to continually reconfigure. How nice to go into a rabbit hole on something important but not urgent, and be able to come back a year later to the same information still visibly organized where you left it. No context lost. If there is an obvious "Minority Report" type power-user interface to be had, it would be that. Quickly navigating between presistent project/activity interface layouts with gestures. High value, high friction removal, with very low-bandwidth user direction needed.
- adastra22 9mo ago
  > Man, I just want to code from a more relaxing neck angle. AVP is actually really good for this. I often work reclined (on bed or couch) with a giant high resolution display wherever it is comfortable.

GrowingSideways 9mo ago

Man, I just want to code from a more relaxing neck angle. I don't think all this is going to be very useful for that. I'm sure these ideas will be useful for something, but.... people have been talking about minority report for decades and trying to materialize it always ends up wasting attention processing too much at once.

Nevermark 9mo ago
For whatever reason, Apple delivered the hardware. But kneecapped the software. They seem to see everything since the iPhone as a kiosk first, computer second. Which makes some degree of sense, Mac with keyboard/trackpad assumed vs. iOS/touch (with optional keyboard/trackpad) and covering many smaller sized screens. But the Vision has much wider interface and interaction potential than Mac, not less. If Apple would let the Pro version of Vision, be a Spacial Mac. The new power high end. (With a Vision Air, for the iOS-like, consumer, lower end market.)
- satvikpendem 9mo ago
  Well, how else are they going to keep up their services revenue? Because at the end of the day, that's why they created the walled garden in the first place.
wolvoleo 9mo ago
> Man, I just want to code from a more relaxing neck angle. Then just get an Xreal air. You can buy 20 of them for the price of one vision pro, and they work great as a simple display.
- bookofjoe 9mo ago
  $3,500 divided by $199[https://www.rayneo.com/products/rayneo-air-3s-xr-glasses?variant=50763884724511&dm_cam=23264128516&dm_grp=&dm_ad=&dm_kw=&dm_net=adwords&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23259900167&gbraid=0AAAAAqVzIIoPI0qQfX83--UkeLV2jCwr_&gclid=CjwKCAiA4KfLBhB0EiwAUY7GAeXq9DsiFsS7iF1-0zcby9InY6sJdWnNhxx37Z8ID1V4InhwU_BbyhoCjswQAvD_BwE https://www.rayneo.com/products/rayneo-air-3s-xr-glasses?var...] = 17: close enough!
  - wolvoleo 9mo ago
    Oh yeah I was going by European prices where the AVP is more than 4000€ including VAT and my xreal air was 199€ also including VAT
    - bookofjoe 9mo ago
      Still close enough!
glompers 9mo ago
Orators learned the "palace of memory" trick for remembering long speeches. In that same vein, then, it does seem less demanding to simply be able to see where you put things. Whether that's done by walking around, or just by glancing around on a 3D overlay (as suggested above for the Vision Pro), I like neither to have to search through stacks or folders of icons, nor to use Spotlight search fields. But perhaps the different types of cognitive loads result in what some people call different personal organizational styles or preferences. The "Clutterbug"[0] quadrant taxonomy comes to mind. [0] https://clutterbug.me/what-clutterbug-are-you-test https://clutterbug.me/what-clutterbug-are-you-test
- Nevermark 9mo ago
  Good points. There really is an amazing untapped space of ideas on how to better navigate information. Even in 2D interfaces, simple things: folders that looked fatter log-relative to how much they contain would add useful context and associative cues, and positive/subjective feelings of "real" recognizable locations vs. just a recursive "interface", when tap-tapping through folders. An idea I implemented: I hide a ".home" (zero byte) file in macOS folders I view as being at the top of a folder hierarchy. Then created a button in the finder toolbar that looks like a house. I can drill down a few folder layers, then pop right back to the hierarchy top by clicking the house button. Just a simple thing. Ordinary users would understand the value of designating "home" folders. And once you have it you can't live without it. For 3D: I think traversable "Spaces" on screens were a great interface idea, done half way. and ripe for 3D extension. A space should be something that can be named, opened, closed, opened on another synced device, opened two years later. Duplicated or branched. I.e. a living persistent active project state of an open work state. With sub-spaces, for sub-projects, that can quickly be zoomed in and out of. The latter would magnify the benefits of working on many different projects in a 3D environment, where having many things open and visible is really helpful, but laborious to continually reconfigure. How nice to go into a rabbit hole on something important but not urgent, and be able to come back a year later to the same information still visibly organized where you left it. No context lost. If there is an obvious "Minority Report" type power-user interface to be had, it would be that. Quickly navigating between presistent project/activity interface layouts with gestures. High value, high friction removal, with very low-bandwidth user direction needed.
adastra22 9mo ago
> Man, I just want to code from a more relaxing neck angle. AVP is actually really good for this. I often work reclined (on bed or couch) with a giant high resolution display wherever it is comfortable.