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And what happens when someone under that age needs to anonymously ask for advice on the internet? Most folks hit puberty at around 13. Imagine your parents hav

by firefax 9mo ago

And what happens when someone under that age needs to anonymously ask for advice on the internet? Most folks hit puberty at around 13. Imagine your parents have divorced -- your new stepfather is very religious. Your phone and laptop have spyways ("parenting software") on them. You manage to get onto a terminal at the public library. You've missed your period -- you're afraid you're pregnant, and not sure how much time you have to do something about it. There are so many edge cases where the benefits of access to social media outweigh the harms -- but we've framed this as a discussion about selfies and sharing when it's really about free expression, and there are so many dark turns a young life can take that are made darker if they're left to their family and friends to rely on for help.

bdangubic 9mo ago
no solution will ever be perfect but social media is infinitely more net-negative for kids, period. just as your example paint a picture of someone in dire need of help outside of friends / family they get easily get wrong help and suffer severe consequences (“drink bleach and you won’t get pregnant”)
insane_dreamer 9mo ago
Sure there are disadvantages with almost any policy but as a parent of teens I’ll take those any day in exchange for a ban. Even in your scenario it doesn’t prevent them from researching online. And the sad reality is that they’re more likely to ask GPT for advice than on some forum.
- firefax 9mo ago
  why should your opinion matter more because you're a parent? in my experience, folks with the economic comfort to create children by choice tend to be extreme machavellian and justify said machinations by the fact they must provide for the children they have thrust into an overpopulated world. as a nonparent, i'm less biased towards the natalist mindset and thus my opinion should be weighed more, not less than yours.
paxys 9mo ago
What makes you think this anonymous 13 year old is going to get good advice from anonymous strangers on the internet?
- devilsdata 9mo ago
  Because the advice from anonymous strangers in many online corners tends to be better than the advice from many countries and US states.
- firefax 9mo ago
  >What makes you think this anonymous 13 year old is going to get good advice from anonymous strangers on the internet? There's a whole section here called "Ask HN". What makes you think a 30 something venture capitalist is going to get good advice from anonymous strangers on the internet?
nvader 9mo ago
And your suggestion is that they go to 4chan or reddit, over, say Googling for advice? Or even talking to the librarian?
- AngryData 9mo ago
  100% if those are the alternatives, I would never trust the top results for google which we all know are seriously gamed. In a number of states librarians are mandatory reporters, and even in places where they aren't if kids start asking them such questions they are going to call either their school or the kid's parents which could cause a much worse situation considering they were avoiding asking their parents in the first place.
camillomiller 9mo ago
Hi! You have been selected as a perfect candidate for an Institutional Relationships Manager position at Meta. You will join fellow internal and contract lobbyists in an exciting journey to manipulate our government into infinite compliance. We particularly appreciated the following skills, as highlighted by your insightful commentary: - great use of false dichotomy - creative ideation of rare and improbable use cases for our products - immediate deflection from the large corpus of scientific data pointing at the negative effects of social media on teenagers (don’t worry, won’t happen again, we fired those responsible for that) - invocation of free expression as the supreme unbridled right even for teenagers who wouldn’t even understand what you’re talking about - disregard for the societal institutions and support systems that, besides the family, are currently still available for the average teenager - lack of any figure in appealing to edge cases. We particularly like this one, because it’s been proven to effectively exaggerate the biased edge cases and make it effective against our opponents’ use of hard data. What a fine, fine candidate! Please send your CV to us. A representative will be in touch shortly!
- firefax 9mo ago
  >invocation of free expression as the supreme unbridled right even for teenagers who wouldn’t even understand what you’re talking about i got into policy partly by reading eff's deeplinks in my very early teens, but hey, go ahead and assume just because you were incapable of nuanced thought when you were violating COPPA to participate in public life everyone is.

by firefax 9mo ago

bdangubic 9mo ago

no solution will ever be perfect but social media is infinitely more net-negative for kids, period. just as your example paint a picture of someone in dire need of help outside of friends / family they get easily get wrong help and suffer severe consequences (“drink bleach and you won’t get pregnant”)

insane_dreamer 9mo ago

Sure there are disadvantages with almost any policy but as a parent of teens I’ll take those any day in exchange for a ban. Even in your scenario it doesn’t prevent them from researching online. And the sad reality is that they’re more likely to ask GPT for advice than on some forum.

firefax 9mo ago
why should your opinion matter more because you're a parent? in my experience, folks with the economic comfort to create children by choice tend to be extreme machavellian and justify said machinations by the fact they must provide for the children they have thrust into an overpopulated world. as a nonparent, i'm less biased towards the natalist mindset and thus my opinion should be weighed more, not less than yours.

paxys 9mo ago

What makes you think this anonymous 13 year old is going to get good advice from anonymous strangers on the internet?

devilsdata 9mo ago
Because the advice from anonymous strangers in many online corners tends to be better than the advice from many countries and US states.
firefax 9mo ago
>What makes you think this anonymous 13 year old is going to get good advice from anonymous strangers on the internet? There's a whole section here called "Ask HN". What makes you think a 30 something venture capitalist is going to get good advice from anonymous strangers on the internet?

nvader 9mo ago

And your suggestion is that they go to 4chan or reddit, over, say Googling for advice? Or even talking to the librarian?

AngryData 9mo ago
100% if those are the alternatives, I would never trust the top results for google which we all know are seriously gamed. In a number of states librarians are mandatory reporters, and even in places where they aren't if kids start asking them such questions they are going to call either their school or the kid's parents which could cause a much worse situation considering they were avoiding asking their parents in the first place.

camillomiller 9mo ago

Hi! You have been selected as a perfect candidate for an Institutional Relationships Manager position at Meta. You will join fellow internal and contract lobbyists in an exciting journey to manipulate our government into infinite compliance. We particularly appreciated the following skills, as highlighted by your insightful commentary: - great use of false dichotomy - creative ideation of rare and improbable use cases for our products - immediate deflection from the large corpus of scientific data pointing at the negative effects of social media on teenagers (don’t worry, won’t happen again, we fired those responsible for that) - invocation of free expression as the supreme unbridled right even for teenagers who wouldn’t even understand what you’re talking about - disregard for the societal institutions and support systems that, besides the family, are currently still available for the average teenager - lack of any figure in appealing to edge cases. We particularly like this one, because it’s been proven to effectively exaggerate the biased edge cases and make it effective against our opponents’ use of hard data. What a fine, fine candidate! Please send your CV to us. A representative will be in touch shortly!

firefax 9mo ago
>invocation of free expression as the supreme unbridled right even for teenagers who wouldn’t even understand what you’re talking about i got into policy partly by reading eff's deeplinks in my very early teens, but hey, go ahead and assume just because you were incapable of nuanced thought when you were violating COPPA to participate in public life everyone is.