6 ms·

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovation

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart directly into the van by myself. A heavy duty pickup makes sense when you have regular towing, or large bulky transport, needs. While on this topic, I’ll take a moment to lament the demise of the light duty pickup that provided a bit of extra utility while still fitting in a normal parking space.

robbru 9mo ago
Sprinters vans are the GOAT. My wife drives a 2009 Ford Ranger, love that damn truck. When it goes, the Sprinter it is.
- potato3732842 9mo ago
  The sprinter is massively over-hyped by people who've never owned one. Yeah, everything about it is generally "solid" and well done but at it's roots it's a very german car. The longblock will theoretically go a million miles but realistically you're gonna replace every part around it several times over to get it there. I'm sure they're fine when new but as they age it's basically the same "replacing way too much BS because while nice it's over engineered" as the rest of german car ownership. Like c'mon man, an asian or american car would "just" require simpler less invasive things and generally be less of a headahce in old age. Source: semi responsible for keeping one running
saalweachter 9mo ago
You can buy a hitch for any vehicle and a brand new 8 foot trailer for < $2k. For the "I need to sometimes pick up large objects" use case it's hard to beat.
- BizarroLand 9mo ago
  I have 3 vehicles, an old project jeep, an old truck, and a sedan. Sedan handles 99% of my driving, but can't really tow anything. Truck handles all of my towing stuff, but gets ~14mpg which hurts so I don't drive it. Jeep is a jeep, it's always being worked on, but when I use it I'm using it to go ride around on dirt paths or for camping. It gets 17-20mpg when I'm driving it but I don't want to drive it often. If the jeep was a 2000's series jeep I would totally just get a small trailer for the occasional towing things that I do with the pickup and downsize to 2 vehicles. I know I could rent a uhaul from time to time for about what I pay for insuring and titling the truck, but the $100 annual difference is worth it for the convenience of not having to deal with uhaul 4 times a year. But I said all of that to say, that a hitch isn't a perfect solution for everyone. I would feel very uncomfortable towing an empty 4x6 trailer behind my sedan, not to even mention the occasional couch or dresser or bunch of boxes from helping a friend move.
  - dwaite 9mo ago
    2001 Wrangler owner, I do some towing (particularly like the flexibility of UBox for borrowing a box on a trailer for a few days to store items at my house or leisurely pack up for storage). The 2 door model unfortunately has a pretty weak tow rating of 1 ton, and I'm fairly certain I have gone well over that a few times. IIRC the four door models a few years later took that up to 5000 lbs because of the extra length.
  - pbmonster 9mo ago
    > I would feel very uncomfortable towing an empty 4x6 trailer behind my sedan, not to even mention the occasional couch or dresser or bunch of boxes from helping a friend move. Why? 1500 lbs rated tow hook on an average sedan should be no problem at all. And that's more than enough for a 4x6 with a couch and a couple of boxes. Might even get a slightly larger trailer so you don't have to take the couch apart. I've towed 14' sailboats including all gear behind a Corolla, didn't even feel the trailer was there.
    - saalweachter 9mo ago
dylan604 9mo ago
> I’ll take a moment to lament the demise of the light duty pickup that provided a bit of extra utility while still fitting in a normal parking space. I miss the hell out of my '82 Chevrolet S10 with extended cab and two-tone paint job. The extended cab isn't going to be used for hauling the soccer team, but I could put it was plenty of space for "inside only" cargo. Damn thing threw a rod and cracked the case, and I never could convince my parents to keep it and put a new engine in it. I'd like to think I'd still own it today if they had.
- QuadmasterXLII 9mo ago
  You could run a single issue presidential campaign on bringing the S10 back (all it would really take is patching some weired emissions regulations mistakes). A better truck from a better time.
  - mc3301 9mo ago
    That new Slate pickup looks pretty cool.
    - mcny 9mo ago
      I have never owned a truck or a new car and I might buy one if they can truly keep the slate under 20knincluding delivery and all taxes and fees.
      - CitrusFruits 9mo ago
        IIRC the 20k number depended on the 7k federal rebate that recently expired, so it will probably be more like 27k
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
      - yencabulator 9mo ago
        F-150 Lightning was supposed to start at $39,974 and ended up at $54,780. I'll be surprised to see Slate actually happening under $30k. Having lost the $7,500 rebate, more like $35k. USA seemingly can't sell small or base trim cars.
parl_match 9mo ago
The only reason i have a pickup is because i put dirtbikes in it. They also fit in a van, but good luck finding a reasonably priced one with AWD (very high demand, especially due to camper conversions). Vans are way better in almost every regard. Actually, I'm buying a house with a garage and I may get a bike trailer, and a tow hitch for my BMW. That would be an even simpler solution
- paddy_m 9mo ago
  Same. Where are you, want to hit the trails sometime?
nospice 9mo ago
I think there's basically one 4x4 van on the market in the US right now. So you're making a pretty bad generalization here. In the Bay Area, it's probably true that a van would work well, although I lived in a mixed-income neighborhood and all the construction guys had beater pickups. But if you live in a place with snow and unpaved residential roads, 4x4 is pretty much a must (and pickups can be also be used for plowing, etc).
- fingerlocks 9mo ago
  If you mean true 4x4, there are none. Sprinter went AWD a few years ago. But I believe most vans on the market have an AWD option. Ford Transit and Volkswagen IDBuzz both offer AWD. Toyota’s Sienna is (only?) AWD with a silly lifted trim for the off-roading soccer mom market. Chrysler’s van is AWD. That leaves the ProMaster as the only two wheeler I’m certain about. Mazda and Kia also have vans, unsure about their drivetrain options. Did I leave anyone out?
- kalenx 9mo ago
  Since when? I sincerely do not understand that point about snow. I've lived in Canada (not southern Ontario) for most of my life and everyone had (and still mostly has) FWD. 4x4 was only for people actually going off road... I don't get how this is now a "must".
  - ImprovedSilence 9mo ago
    it's a perceived must. when running "all season" tires year round the AWD inspires more confidence, and most people don't even know winter tires are a thing. Plus 4x4 only helps you start moving, but once you are, every car still only has 2 wheels to turn and 4 to stop, which are quite possibly more crucial in snow....
    - kevin_thibedeau 9mo ago
      4x4/AWD makes slides in snow/slush more controllable as you spin around the center of the vehicle and have two extra drive wheels to regain traction with.
cgh 9mo ago
Light-duty pickups still exist, eg the Nissan Frontier with the 6’ bed is probably the most reliable, sturdy and cost-effective pickup out there. Europeans may know this truck as the Navarro.
UltraSane 9mo ago
A minivan with the two rear seats removed can move so much stuff.
- potato3732842 9mo ago
  Yeah but the same exact geniuses in here screeching about "you don't need a truck" will judge you so hard when they see you in the home depot parking lot stacking the thing floor to ceiling with building materials. Source: own minivan
vpribish 9mo ago
Really hoping Slate works out! The modern pickup is usually a tuba for assholes not a working tool.
jrjeksjd8d 9mo ago
I have a 2018 Forester and it holds a surprising amount of furniture or 8' lumber. My only regret is that it won't fit 4x8 sheet materials well - if only they had designed the interior plastic cladding a little better it would be a great workhorse.
- analog31 9mo ago
  I remember my 1982 Toyota Corolla wagon had an obvious cut-out in the plastic interior, that was just a hair wider than a 4x8 sheet. I still miss that car.
  - daemonologist 9mo ago
    Yep, my parents had an old Honda Odyssey (minivan) that exactly fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Comical that some pickups can't quite measure up.
    - sgarland 9mo ago
      Manufacturers are selling what their market wants. It sucks. Ironically, the Honda Ridgeline - long lambasted as “not a real truck” - can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood, at least width-wise. You’ll have to either prop it up on the tailgate, or drop it and strap it down (which honestly you should do either way), but it will fit between the wheels. I love my Ridgelines; had a Gen1 RTL, and now a Gen2 BE. A neighbor I used to have traded his F-150 for an F-350. The most I ever saw him haul was a very small trailer with some furniture. I’ve had a cubic yard of mulch dumped into mine repeatedly (a Gen1 Ridgeline will hold and haul this, but it’s heaped, and depending on moisture content it’s slightly over max rating, so maybe don’t bring a passenger).
  - aj7 9mo ago
    Try buying a compact Toyota pickup without the extra row of seats. The last one was made in 2015. They sell for more than the price of new for mileage < 100k.
bloomingeek 9mo ago
We bought our first minivan in 1998, a Ford Windstar. It was purchased to run our teenagers to activities, but I quickly fell in love with all the other things it could do, including what you've mentioned above. We put a ton of miles on it before trading it in. Next was a 2007 Town and Country with two sliding doors! By this time we were running grandkids and it was perfect. After deciding to replace it, we struggled to decide what kind of vehicle to upgrade to. For our lifestyle and the side projects I like to do, another minivan was the obvious choice. Now it's a 2018 Pacifica and we're retired. The quality is outstanding, with 112K miles on it, I expect to put on another 100K before seeing what's available for the next upgrade. None of these vans ever gave us any engine or transmission trouble, despite the high number of miles I was able to put on them.
sotix 9mo ago
> I’ll take a moment to lament the demise of the light duty pickup that provided a bit of extra utility while still fitting in a normal parking space. Remind me of my favorite article title: In the land of the free, why can’t we have mini-pickup trucks like the Taliban and ISIS?[0] [0]: https://www.kansas.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/dion-lefler/article274837471.html https://www.kansas.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/dion-lefler...
eudamoniac 9mo ago
How do you fit a 40ft ladder inside a van? How about a mound of mulch or compost? How about hauling away customer's old plumbing or any number of filthy things you don't want in a car interior? Not to mention that when it contains heavy items like a large beam of wood, you often can't physically lift it out with those awkward van angles, but could in a truck bed. First of all I'm not convinced that the utility of the trucks is mostly unused. This seems like a trope from anticar people. But second of all and more concretely, I've done a lot of trade work that would have simply not worked in a van, so seeing your common sentiment is always bemusing.
- yencabulator 9mo ago
  > How about hauling away customer's old plumbing or any number of filthy things you don't want in a car interior? Funny story, the guys who demolished an old bathroom for us hauled the crap & dust away in a very dirty beater van (either a small cargo van or a minivan with rear seating removed, can't remember). It was their designated demolition vehicle.
quickthrowman 9mo ago
Nobody drives sheet goods around in a pickup or a work van with any sort of regularity. There are only two trades that use sheet goods: drywall and carpentry. Most of the time they’re getting dozens or hundreds of sheets delivered to a job site. What are you going to do with (12) 32 sq ft pieces of sheet goods anyways, put up drywall in a half of a bedroom or reroof a quarter of a garage? If you really want to do this, you’ll get a roof rack for hauling sheet goods.

robbru 9mo ago

Sprinters vans are the GOAT. My wife drives a 2009 Ford Ranger, love that damn truck. When it goes, the Sprinter it is.

potato3732842 9mo ago
The sprinter is massively over-hyped by people who've never owned one. Yeah, everything about it is generally "solid" and well done but at it's roots it's a very german car. The longblock will theoretically go a million miles but realistically you're gonna replace every part around it several times over to get it there. I'm sure they're fine when new but as they age it's basically the same "replacing way too much BS because while nice it's over engineered" as the rest of german car ownership. Like c'mon man, an asian or american car would "just" require simpler less invasive things and generally be less of a headahce in old age. Source: semi responsible for keeping one running

saalweachter 9mo ago

You can buy a hitch for any vehicle and a brand new 8 foot trailer for < $2k. For the "I need to sometimes pick up large objects" use case it's hard to beat.

BizarroLand 9mo ago
I have 3 vehicles, an old project jeep, an old truck, and a sedan. Sedan handles 99% of my driving, but can't really tow anything. Truck handles all of my towing stuff, but gets ~14mpg which hurts so I don't drive it. Jeep is a jeep, it's always being worked on, but when I use it I'm using it to go ride around on dirt paths or for camping. It gets 17-20mpg when I'm driving it but I don't want to drive it often. If the jeep was a 2000's series jeep I would totally just get a small trailer for the occasional towing things that I do with the pickup and downsize to 2 vehicles. I know I could rent a uhaul from time to time for about what I pay for insuring and titling the truck, but the $100 annual difference is worth it for the convenience of not having to deal with uhaul 4 times a year. But I said all of that to say, that a hitch isn't a perfect solution for everyone. I would feel very uncomfortable towing an empty 4x6 trailer behind my sedan, not to even mention the occasional couch or dresser or bunch of boxes from helping a friend move.
- dwaite 9mo ago
  2001 Wrangler owner, I do some towing (particularly like the flexibility of UBox for borrowing a box on a trailer for a few days to store items at my house or leisurely pack up for storage). The 2 door model unfortunately has a pretty weak tow rating of 1 ton, and I'm fairly certain I have gone well over that a few times. IIRC the four door models a few years later took that up to 5000 lbs because of the extra length.
- pbmonster 9mo ago
  > I would feel very uncomfortable towing an empty 4x6 trailer behind my sedan, not to even mention the occasional couch or dresser or bunch of boxes from helping a friend move. Why? 1500 lbs rated tow hook on an average sedan should be no problem at all. And that's more than enough for a 4x6 with a couch and a couple of boxes. Might even get a slightly larger trailer so you don't have to take the couch apart. I've towed 14' sailboats including all gear behind a Corolla, didn't even feel the trailer was there.
  - saalweachter 9mo ago

dylan604 9mo ago

> I’ll take a moment to lament the demise of the light duty pickup that provided a bit of extra utility while still fitting in a normal parking space. I miss the hell out of my '82 Chevrolet S10 with extended cab and two-tone paint job. The extended cab isn't going to be used for hauling the soccer team, but I could put it was plenty of space for "inside only" cargo. Damn thing threw a rod and cracked the case, and I never could convince my parents to keep it and put a new engine in it. I'd like to think I'd still own it today if they had.

QuadmasterXLII 9mo ago
You could run a single issue presidential campaign on bringing the S10 back (all it would really take is patching some weired emissions regulations mistakes). A better truck from a better time.
- mc3301 9mo ago
  That new Slate pickup looks pretty cool.
  - mcny 9mo ago
    I have never owned a truck or a new car and I might buy one if they can truly keep the slate under 20knincluding delivery and all taxes and fees.
    - CitrusFruits 9mo ago
      IIRC the 20k number depended on the 7k federal rebate that recently expired, so it will probably be more like 27k
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
    - yencabulator 9mo ago
      F-150 Lightning was supposed to start at $39,974 and ended up at $54,780. I'll be surprised to see Slate actually happening under $30k. Having lost the $7,500 rebate, more like $35k. USA seemingly can't sell small or base trim cars.

parl_match 9mo ago

The only reason i have a pickup is because i put dirtbikes in it. They also fit in a van, but good luck finding a reasonably priced one with AWD (very high demand, especially due to camper conversions). Vans are way better in almost every regard. Actually, I'm buying a house with a garage and I may get a bike trailer, and a tow hitch for my BMW. That would be an even simpler solution

paddy_m 9mo ago
Same. Where are you, want to hit the trails sometime?

nospice 9mo ago

I think there's basically one 4x4 van on the market in the US right now. So you're making a pretty bad generalization here. In the Bay Area, it's probably true that a van would work well, although I lived in a mixed-income neighborhood and all the construction guys had beater pickups. But if you live in a place with snow and unpaved residential roads, 4x4 is pretty much a must (and pickups can be also be used for plowing, etc).

fingerlocks 9mo ago
If you mean true 4x4, there are none. Sprinter went AWD a few years ago. But I believe most vans on the market have an AWD option. Ford Transit and Volkswagen IDBuzz both offer AWD. Toyota’s Sienna is (only?) AWD with a silly lifted trim for the off-roading soccer mom market. Chrysler’s van is AWD. That leaves the ProMaster as the only two wheeler I’m certain about. Mazda and Kia also have vans, unsure about their drivetrain options. Did I leave anyone out?
kalenx 9mo ago
Since when? I sincerely do not understand that point about snow. I've lived in Canada (not southern Ontario) for most of my life and everyone had (and still mostly has) FWD. 4x4 was only for people actually going off road... I don't get how this is now a "must".
- ImprovedSilence 9mo ago
  it's a perceived must. when running "all season" tires year round the AWD inspires more confidence, and most people don't even know winter tires are a thing. Plus 4x4 only helps you start moving, but once you are, every car still only has 2 wheels to turn and 4 to stop, which are quite possibly more crucial in snow....
  - kevin_thibedeau 9mo ago
    4x4/AWD makes slides in snow/slush more controllable as you spin around the center of the vehicle and have two extra drive wheels to regain traction with.

cgh 9mo ago

Light-duty pickups still exist, eg the Nissan Frontier with the 6’ bed is probably the most reliable, sturdy and cost-effective pickup out there. Europeans may know this truck as the Navarro.

UltraSane 9mo ago

A minivan with the two rear seats removed can move so much stuff.

potato3732842 9mo ago
Yeah but the same exact geniuses in here screeching about "you don't need a truck" will judge you so hard when they see you in the home depot parking lot stacking the thing floor to ceiling with building materials. Source: own minivan

vpribish 9mo ago

Really hoping Slate works out! The modern pickup is usually a tuba for assholes not a working tool.

jrjeksjd8d 9mo ago

I have a 2018 Forester and it holds a surprising amount of furniture or 8' lumber. My only regret is that it won't fit 4x8 sheet materials well - if only they had designed the interior plastic cladding a little better it would be a great workhorse.

analog31 9mo ago
I remember my 1982 Toyota Corolla wagon had an obvious cut-out in the plastic interior, that was just a hair wider than a 4x8 sheet. I still miss that car.
- daemonologist 9mo ago
  Yep, my parents had an old Honda Odyssey (minivan) that exactly fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Comical that some pickups can't quite measure up.
  - sgarland 9mo ago
    Manufacturers are selling what their market wants. It sucks. Ironically, the Honda Ridgeline - long lambasted as “not a real truck” - can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood, at least width-wise. You’ll have to either prop it up on the tailgate, or drop it and strap it down (which honestly you should do either way), but it will fit between the wheels. I love my Ridgelines; had a Gen1 RTL, and now a Gen2 BE. A neighbor I used to have traded his F-150 for an F-350. The most I ever saw him haul was a very small trailer with some furniture. I’ve had a cubic yard of mulch dumped into mine repeatedly (a Gen1 Ridgeline will hold and haul this, but it’s heaped, and depending on moisture content it’s slightly over max rating, so maybe don’t bring a passenger).
- aj7 9mo ago
  Try buying a compact Toyota pickup without the extra row of seats. The last one was made in 2015. They sell for more than the price of new for mileage < 100k.

bloomingeek 9mo ago

We bought our first minivan in 1998, a Ford Windstar. It was purchased to run our teenagers to activities, but I quickly fell in love with all the other things it could do, including what you've mentioned above. We put a ton of miles on it before trading it in. Next was a 2007 Town and Country with two sliding doors! By this time we were running grandkids and it was perfect. After deciding to replace it, we struggled to decide what kind of vehicle to upgrade to. For our lifestyle and the side projects I like to do, another minivan was the obvious choice. Now it's a 2018 Pacifica and we're retired. The quality is outstanding, with 112K miles on it, I expect to put on another 100K before seeing what's available for the next upgrade. None of these vans ever gave us any engine or transmission trouble, despite the high number of miles I was able to put on them.

sotix 9mo ago

> I’ll take a moment to lament the demise of the light duty pickup that provided a bit of extra utility while still fitting in a normal parking space. Remind me of my favorite article title: In the land of the free, why can’t we have mini-pickup trucks like the Taliban and ISIS?[0] [0]: https://www.kansas.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/dion-lefler/article274837471.html https://www.kansas.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/dion-lefler...

eudamoniac 9mo ago

How do you fit a 40ft ladder inside a van? How about a mound of mulch or compost? How about hauling away customer's old plumbing or any number of filthy things you don't want in a car interior? Not to mention that when it contains heavy items like a large beam of wood, you often can't physically lift it out with those awkward van angles, but could in a truck bed. First of all I'm not convinced that the utility of the trucks is mostly unused. This seems like a trope from anticar people. But second of all and more concretely, I've done a lot of trade work that would have simply not worked in a van, so seeing your common sentiment is always bemusing.

yencabulator 9mo ago
> How about hauling away customer's old plumbing or any number of filthy things you don't want in a car interior? Funny story, the guys who demolished an old bathroom for us hauled the crap & dust away in a very dirty beater van (either a small cargo van or a minivan with rear seating removed, can't remember). It was their designated demolition vehicle.

quickthrowman 9mo ago

Nobody drives sheet goods around in a pickup or a work van with any sort of regularity. There are only two trades that use sheet goods: drywall and carpentry. Most of the time they’re getting dozens or hundreds of sheets delivered to a job site. What are you going to do with (12) 32 sq ft pieces of sheet goods anyways, put up drywall in a half of a bedroom or reroof a quarter of a garage? If you really want to do this, you’ll get a roof rack for hauling sheet goods.