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Thanks, I appreciate your reply! Regarding the American prison system: Doing some light searching, I've come up with dozens of articles detailing prisoner abus

Thanks, I appreciate your reply! Regarding the American prison system: Doing some light searching, I've come up with dozens of articles detailing prisoner abuse in the UK (for instance: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jan2004/pris-j15.shtml http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jan2004/pris-j15.shtml). Frankly, I think a lot of the issues with American prisons are common in such institutions. Prison in America is no treat (just like it isn't in most nations), but I think the comparison to North Korea or any other 3rd world nation is kind of laughable to me (100% personal opinion). I don't get the "distract attention from their incompetence". I know that the public is beginning to become keen to the idea of network security breaches as problems of national defense, and even just aware to the idea of computer security threats in general, but this really wasn't that big of a story here in the US. If they prosecuted this man right now, nobody but hardcore techies would really be paying attention. We're focused on other issues in America right now (see: election 2012) and they're taking up all the oxygen in the room. It's not like the US military and this case of hacking have made the US military the butt of all jokes. In fact, the only articles about penetration of government servers that get real ink are related to: China, Anonymous/Lulzsec/Antisec/*sec and Iran. Furthermore, the US military doesn't need to motivate anyone in this hacking case. The prosecutes for the government don't need to be leaned on, they are dogged enough in their own right. My thought for why this thing is confusing to me: I just feel like I am missing something here. A man who had full knowledge that the actions they were executing were serious crimes, left aggressive messages of a political nature on the servers he trespassed on, is some kind of cult hero? Why? What did he do? Is it because his antagonistic stance against US foreign policy matches with the politics of the IT community? Is it because there is great sympathy in the IT community for people who fall somewhere on the Autism spectrum? His crime attacked the United States. Why -shouldn't- he be extradited? If an American circumvented security measures against servers on Downing Street and deleted information, would the US not extradite him for prosecution in the UK? I don't know... every time the United States wants to extradite a hacker the only impetus can be pure Machiavellian evil? Isn't it possible, or even likely, that someone committed a crime and the prosecutors want that person punished? Because it's the law? And because that is what happens when you commit a crime?

phaemon 14y ago
Of course UK prisons aren't holiday camps. But there's no chance of McKinnon ending up in one of those prisons. I meant that the impression given of US prisons is like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2kTQKZaSU&noredirect=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2kTQKZaSU&noredirect=1 ...and McKinnon did get the impression he might end up somewhere like that. If you stand a good chance of being beaten, raped, tortured and eventually killed, then how exactly is it less bad than being sent to a third world country? Better food? ;) As for "cult hero", I've no idea where you got that from. People generally think he's a slightly pathetic character who did something a bit stupid by poking about in unsecured computer systems. A crime that possibly merits a £2000 fine and some community service (and firing the people responsible for securing those systems). Instead, it's "extradite a hacker" to meet with Justice (American Style!). Can you not see why people would object to that? [edit for spelling, and forgot a bit]
- gavinlynch 14y ago
  >>> "A crime that possibly merits a £2000 fine and some community service (and firing the people responsible for securing those systems)." I guess this is probably the rub. When you trespass into your neighbors backyard to jump in their pool at night and you get caught, that could be a fine and community service. When you trespass on military property, let's say you hop a fence or sneak your way into a government building... That's kind of a big deal. When you work your way into government servers and delete data... That's not just community service. That's kind of a big deal.
  - phaemon 14y ago
    >When you trespass on military property, let's say you hop a fence or sneak your way into a government building... That's kind of a big deal. No, it's really not. If someone wandered onto an unsecured Government facility in the UK, they'd probably be picked up and questioned...and then released with a stern warning not to do it again. > When you work your way into government servers and delete data Did he delete data? I though he just poked around and left some messages? Anyway, he hardly worked his way into them; they were wide open. I just don't see it as a big deal. Here's what I don't get about you though...you're a US taxpayer, right? That means you paid some people to secure those machines. And they completely failed in their job, right? If you hire someone who then completely fails to do what you hired them to do, why don't you want them fired? [edit: I missed this question before...] > If an American circumvented security measures against servers on Downing Street and deleted information, would the US not extradite him for prosecution in the UK? Nope, the extradition treaty is one-way. That's another thing that sticks in people's craw...

phaemon 14y ago

Of course UK prisons aren't holiday camps. But there's no chance of McKinnon ending up in one of those prisons. I meant that the impression given of US prisons is like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2kTQKZaSU&noredirect=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2kTQKZaSU&noredirect=1 ...and McKinnon did get the impression he might end up somewhere like that. If you stand a good chance of being beaten, raped, tortured and eventually killed, then how exactly is it less bad than being sent to a third world country? Better food? ;) As for "cult hero", I've no idea where you got that from. People generally think he's a slightly pathetic character who did something a bit stupid by poking about in unsecured computer systems. A crime that possibly merits a £2000 fine and some community service (and firing the people responsible for securing those systems). Instead, it's "extradite a hacker" to meet with Justice (American Style!). Can you not see why people would object to that? [edit for spelling, and forgot a bit]

gavinlynch 14y ago
>>> "A crime that possibly merits a £2000 fine and some community service (and firing the people responsible for securing those systems)." I guess this is probably the rub. When you trespass into your neighbors backyard to jump in their pool at night and you get caught, that could be a fine and community service. When you trespass on military property, let's say you hop a fence or sneak your way into a government building... That's kind of a big deal. When you work your way into government servers and delete data... That's not just community service. That's kind of a big deal.
- phaemon 14y ago
  >When you trespass on military property, let's say you hop a fence or sneak your way into a government building... That's kind of a big deal. No, it's really not. If someone wandered onto an unsecured Government facility in the UK, they'd probably be picked up and questioned...and then released with a stern warning not to do it again. > When you work your way into government servers and delete data Did he delete data? I though he just poked around and left some messages? Anyway, he hardly worked his way into them; they were wide open. I just don't see it as a big deal. Here's what I don't get about you though...you're a US taxpayer, right? That means you paid some people to secure those machines. And they completely failed in their job, right? If you hire someone who then completely fails to do what you hired them to do, why don't you want them fired? [edit: I missed this question before...] > If an American circumvented security measures against servers on Downing Street and deleted information, would the US not extradite him for prosecution in the UK? Nope, the extradition treaty is one-way. That's another thing that sticks in people's craw...