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It might just be me, but personally I don't understand what is so bad about plain old Notepad. Everythng I've ever coded (except when at work where I'm forced t

It might just be me, but personally I don't understand what is so bad about plain old Notepad. Everythng I've ever coded (except when at work where I'm forced to use others) has been done on Notepad (or, if I'm feeling in the mood to have some colours on the screen, Notepad++) and I've never had any issues. Why spend so long worrying about your IDE of choice when they are all effectively glorified text editors? edit: I'm glad that my comment provoked such a fantastic discussion

agscala 14y ago
There's nothing wrong with using notepad, but you can be significantly more productive with other editors
- shanelja 14y ago
  Really? You honestly believe that? Will it make me type faster and think faster? I spent 6 months working in a doctors office were I had to type every word spoken for 7 hours a day, the block here is not my efficiency, it is in fact my intelligence.
  - gavinlynch 14y ago
    "Will it make me type faster and think faster?" No, but syntax highlighting greatly enhances code readability and your brains ability to recognize what types of objects or properties or functions are being represented in code. Associating the color blue with a variable declaration, for example, is just there as a visual cue or shortcut for your brain. I understand your point that it can be done perfectly fine with notepad, but let's not pretend that these visual cues don't give your brain a jump-start.
    - shanelja 14y ago
      Oh, I agree, the syntax highlighting does help when I'm reading back through it, but in the act of actually coding I find it a distraction, I prefer not to look while I code and the colours draw my eyes.
  - killface 14y ago
    Transcribing audio is not programming. Programming has very exacting syntax. Anything that helps (color coding, syntax highlighting, etc) speeds things up. Have you ever tried to write Java without an ide? There's no possible world in which using Notepad is going to be superior to just about anything else.
    - shanelja 14y ago
      I have in fact tried and succeeded in writing Java without an IDE, but in all honesty, I believe your using it as an example says more about the overly verbose nature of the language than the tool of choice.
  - grandpoobah 14y ago
    I feel the same way. Most of my time is spent thinking about how I'm going to do something or how I can make it better, I just can't imagine these tools significantly improving my productivity. I use Notepad++ for most things.
    - shanelja 14y ago
      It's nice to know I'm not alone here, I was beginning to feel like a duck out of water seeing the other (but also, equally valid) responses.
      - hollerith 14y ago
        No, you're not alone.
  - mquander 14y ago
    Typing and thinking faster is pretty much the rationale for every single feature in a text editor, so I'd say the burden is on you to explain why you don't believe it. For typing faster, you can get around the text quickly, do autocomplete, automate repetitive things, etc. For thinking faster, you can more quickly look around a project and get information, you can access documentation and metadata easier, and you can more easily create quick prototypes for testing ideas.
    - shanelja 14y ago
      I perfectly agree with you that using a quality IDE allows you to achieve all of those things and I don't argue that features such as autocomplete (and I believe you touched on macros) can be extremely useful. But I still pose the question, why is it worth the time to learn what is considered a complicated IDE (if it needs to be taught)? Would the time not be spent better, say, being genuinely productive, rather than merely preparing for future productivity? We live in the here and now, my boss wants to hear that my project will be done on time, not that it will be a week late because I need to learn the more fickle aspects of an IDE he didn't sanction before I can finish it.
      - de90 14y ago
        I disagree that needing to learn something is counter productive. They are simply extra capabilities, and you don't need to use them if you don't want to. I've been using visual studio for a few years now an I still out of the blue find an extra capability that makes me have to hit less buttons, or not having to touch the mouse. Little things like jumping to a function with pressing a button, or finding all things that are referencing a function\class\etc are extremely useful, but certainly not necessary. Then things like intellisense are a godsend. That being said, a lot of my time is spent out of visual studio, but with Sublime Text which add's a lot of things that simply make me have to type less, and focus more on the actual task at hand.
        shanelja 14y ago
        I don't honestly have a response to this, thus far my comments have been based upon opinion, do you have a link to Sublime Text? I feel the only way to truly decide will be for me to install it and try it myself for a week and then attempt to decide fairly which I prefer.
  - johncoltrane 14y ago
    Well… The discussion is about programming, not dictation. Vim is very well suited to programming because we spend a significantly longer time thinking about, navigating and modifying code than actually writing it. That's how most people do programming and Vim is ace for all of that thanks to: * text-objects and motions to fly through your code and edit with laser-like precision in as few keystrokes as possible * counts to perform repetitive actions in a flash * ranges for when you want to act on a specific part of the file * incsearch * :global * macros * :s/foo/bar * etc. When it comes to actually write new code, Vim doesn't help much. Well… if you don't consider: * filename completion <C-x><C-f> * keyword completion <C-n> * line completion <C-x><C-l> * <C-r>= to insert the result of an expression * <C-y> to input the char above the cursor * etc. But then again, we are talking about programming, here, and nobody ever pretended that Vim was the answer to every problem. Or even your problem, for that matter. In a situation like yours, I'd probably use something like Dragon or simply use stenography like my secretary mother did 30 years ago. I'm very much in love of Vim, actually, but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody that is not a somewhat experienced coder. And even then, there's an entire population of programmers who spend their days generating code, fighting against OOP hell and refactoring refactorings. Those people would probably not derive any benefit from using Vim. Just like you. And nobody is trying to sell them Vim. Just like you. Use the right tool for the job.
killface 14y ago
It might just be me, but personally I don't understand what is so bad about plain old Rocks. Everything I've ever hammered (except at work where I'm forced to use other) has been done by Rocks (or, if I'm feeling in the mood to have some recessed nails, convex rocks) and I've never had any issues. Why spend so long worrying about your Hammer of choice when they are all effectively glorified Rocks?
- shanelja 14y ago
  A skilled artist utilizing a rock correctly can do a better job than another person using a hammer.
  - mdwrigh2 14y ago
    That isn't an argument for using a rock. Just because Beethoven was capable of composing incredible symphonies while deaf doesn't mean that you should deafen yourself while composing.
    - shanelja 14y ago
      But here you reverse the burden of action, if every person was born death, as if the metaphor is applied to reality, then surely, the others go out of their way when they could be composing incredible symphonies all along?
  - esrauch 14y ago
    Totally true, but what could that same skilled artist do with a hammer?
Scriptor 14y ago
What languages do you typically work iwth?
- shanelja 14y ago
  Mostly PHP at work, with anything from pure php to zend or codeigniter (both of which don't have correct syntax highlighting in the IDE we have to use there.) When I get home it's anything from C++ to Java, but occasionally in my spare time I throw together the occasional Python script (and once, Ruby, when I was working with a program called GameMaker which accepted plugins only as DLLs or imbedded ruby scripts)
  - gknoy 14y ago
    Have you considered using an editor like Komodo (auto completion, auto indentation, syntax highlighting of strings and variables within strings) or Notepad++? You can certainly code in Notepad, and you can write code with "cat > filename" too. Most of us that have had even the slightest exposure to more powerful editors dismiss Notepad as "Not the Right Tool for Programming", in much the same way that a chef will dismiss a butter knife (or a spoon) as not a proper tool for slicing vegetables. Consider that there may be some merit in such an assessment, and that there may be ways in which other editors may serve you better. If you _seriously_ use Notepad regularly as a programming editor, I urge you to try Notepad++ or Komodo as an alternative for at least a WEEK, and see what you like better about Notepad. This will help you overcome the initial unfamiliarity enough to see the things that they offer which Notepad does not. In the other editors: - You can open more than one file easily. - They will re-open what you last had open, if you like (I do). - Komodo will recognize nearly every format you might be coding in, and color-code it in a way which helps reduce errors, because you can immediately see when the color coding is different from what you expected. - Some editors will flag syntax errors as you type. Give it a shot. Try another editor. Nearly any other editor. I personally enjoy using Komodo at home and at work. Sublime Text 2 is beautiful, though its keybinds do not agree with my muscle memory. Notepad++ is free and awesome.
krapp 14y ago
I used to code in Notepad ages ago when I didn't know any better. It was ok, but for some weird reason now and then when I would save a file all of the linebreaks would disappear. I've never found out if that was an issue with notepad or windows or just some random dumb thing i was doing or what but I can't even touch it now. Notepad++ with its syntax highlighting is awesome.
Myrmornis 14y ago
How do you indent your code? Not having my editor handle the indentation is the first thing I'd miss.

agscala 14y ago

There's nothing wrong with using notepad, but you can be significantly more productive with other editors

shanelja 14y ago
Really? You honestly believe that? Will it make me type faster and think faster? I spent 6 months working in a doctors office were I had to type every word spoken for 7 hours a day, the block here is not my efficiency, it is in fact my intelligence.
- gavinlynch 14y ago
  "Will it make me type faster and think faster?" No, but syntax highlighting greatly enhances code readability and your brains ability to recognize what types of objects or properties or functions are being represented in code. Associating the color blue with a variable declaration, for example, is just there as a visual cue or shortcut for your brain. I understand your point that it can be done perfectly fine with notepad, but let's not pretend that these visual cues don't give your brain a jump-start.
  - shanelja 14y ago
    Oh, I agree, the syntax highlighting does help when I'm reading back through it, but in the act of actually coding I find it a distraction, I prefer not to look while I code and the colours draw my eyes.
- killface 14y ago
  Transcribing audio is not programming. Programming has very exacting syntax. Anything that helps (color coding, syntax highlighting, etc) speeds things up. Have you ever tried to write Java without an ide? There's no possible world in which using Notepad is going to be superior to just about anything else.
  - shanelja 14y ago
    I have in fact tried and succeeded in writing Java without an IDE, but in all honesty, I believe your using it as an example says more about the overly verbose nature of the language than the tool of choice.
- grandpoobah 14y ago
  I feel the same way. Most of my time is spent thinking about how I'm going to do something or how I can make it better, I just can't imagine these tools significantly improving my productivity. I use Notepad++ for most things.
  - shanelja 14y ago
    It's nice to know I'm not alone here, I was beginning to feel like a duck out of water seeing the other (but also, equally valid) responses.
    - hollerith 14y ago
      No, you're not alone.
- mquander 14y ago
  Typing and thinking faster is pretty much the rationale for every single feature in a text editor, so I'd say the burden is on you to explain why you don't believe it. For typing faster, you can get around the text quickly, do autocomplete, automate repetitive things, etc. For thinking faster, you can more quickly look around a project and get information, you can access documentation and metadata easier, and you can more easily create quick prototypes for testing ideas.
  - shanelja 14y ago
    I perfectly agree with you that using a quality IDE allows you to achieve all of those things and I don't argue that features such as autocomplete (and I believe you touched on macros) can be extremely useful. But I still pose the question, why is it worth the time to learn what is considered a complicated IDE (if it needs to be taught)? Would the time not be spent better, say, being genuinely productive, rather than merely preparing for future productivity? We live in the here and now, my boss wants to hear that my project will be done on time, not that it will be a week late because I need to learn the more fickle aspects of an IDE he didn't sanction before I can finish it.
    - de90 14y ago
      I disagree that needing to learn something is counter productive. They are simply extra capabilities, and you don't need to use them if you don't want to. I've been using visual studio for a few years now an I still out of the blue find an extra capability that makes me have to hit less buttons, or not having to touch the mouse. Little things like jumping to a function with pressing a button, or finding all things that are referencing a function\class\etc are extremely useful, but certainly not necessary. Then things like intellisense are a godsend. That being said, a lot of my time is spent out of visual studio, but with Sublime Text which add's a lot of things that simply make me have to type less, and focus more on the actual task at hand.
      - shanelja 14y ago
        I don't honestly have a response to this, thus far my comments have been based upon opinion, do you have a link to Sublime Text? I feel the only way to truly decide will be for me to install it and try it myself for a week and then attempt to decide fairly which I prefer.
- johncoltrane 14y ago
  Well… The discussion is about programming, not dictation. Vim is very well suited to programming because we spend a significantly longer time thinking about, navigating and modifying code than actually writing it. That's how most people do programming and Vim is ace for all of that thanks to: * text-objects and motions to fly through your code and edit with laser-like precision in as few keystrokes as possible * counts to perform repetitive actions in a flash * ranges for when you want to act on a specific part of the file * incsearch * :global * macros * :s/foo/bar * etc. When it comes to actually write new code, Vim doesn't help much. Well… if you don't consider: * filename completion <C-x><C-f> * keyword completion <C-n> * line completion <C-x><C-l> * <C-r>= to insert the result of an expression * <C-y> to input the char above the cursor * etc. But then again, we are talking about programming, here, and nobody ever pretended that Vim was the answer to every problem. Or even your problem, for that matter. In a situation like yours, I'd probably use something like Dragon or simply use stenography like my secretary mother did 30 years ago. I'm very much in love of Vim, actually, but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody that is not a somewhat experienced coder. And even then, there's an entire population of programmers who spend their days generating code, fighting against OOP hell and refactoring refactorings. Those people would probably not derive any benefit from using Vim. Just like you. And nobody is trying to sell them Vim. Just like you. Use the right tool for the job.

killface 14y ago

It might just be me, but personally I don't understand what is so bad about plain old Rocks. Everything I've ever hammered (except at work where I'm forced to use other) has been done by Rocks (or, if I'm feeling in the mood to have some recessed nails, convex rocks) and I've never had any issues. Why spend so long worrying about your Hammer of choice when they are all effectively glorified Rocks?

shanelja 14y ago
A skilled artist utilizing a rock correctly can do a better job than another person using a hammer.
- mdwrigh2 14y ago
  That isn't an argument for using a rock. Just because Beethoven was capable of composing incredible symphonies while deaf doesn't mean that you should deafen yourself while composing.
  - shanelja 14y ago
    But here you reverse the burden of action, if every person was born death, as if the metaphor is applied to reality, then surely, the others go out of their way when they could be composing incredible symphonies all along?
- esrauch 14y ago
  Totally true, but what could that same skilled artist do with a hammer?

Scriptor 14y ago

What languages do you typically work iwth?

shanelja 14y ago
Mostly PHP at work, with anything from pure php to zend or codeigniter (both of which don't have correct syntax highlighting in the IDE we have to use there.) When I get home it's anything from C++ to Java, but occasionally in my spare time I throw together the occasional Python script (and once, Ruby, when I was working with a program called GameMaker which accepted plugins only as DLLs or imbedded ruby scripts)
- gknoy 14y ago
  Have you considered using an editor like Komodo (auto completion, auto indentation, syntax highlighting of strings and variables within strings) or Notepad++? You can certainly code in Notepad, and you can write code with "cat > filename" too. Most of us that have had even the slightest exposure to more powerful editors dismiss Notepad as "Not the Right Tool for Programming", in much the same way that a chef will dismiss a butter knife (or a spoon) as not a proper tool for slicing vegetables. Consider that there may be some merit in such an assessment, and that there may be ways in which other editors may serve you better. If you _seriously_ use Notepad regularly as a programming editor, I urge you to try Notepad++ or Komodo as an alternative for at least a WEEK, and see what you like better about Notepad. This will help you overcome the initial unfamiliarity enough to see the things that they offer which Notepad does not. In the other editors: - You can open more than one file easily. - They will re-open what you last had open, if you like (I do). - Komodo will recognize nearly every format you might be coding in, and color-code it in a way which helps reduce errors, because you can immediately see when the color coding is different from what you expected. - Some editors will flag syntax errors as you type. Give it a shot. Try another editor. Nearly any other editor. I personally enjoy using Komodo at home and at work. Sublime Text 2 is beautiful, though its keybinds do not agree with my muscle memory. Notepad++ is free and awesome.

krapp 14y ago

I used to code in Notepad ages ago when I didn't know any better. It was ok, but for some weird reason now and then when I would save a file all of the linebreaks would disappear. I've never found out if that was an issue with notepad or windows or just some random dumb thing i was doing or what but I can't even touch it now. Notepad++ with its syntax highlighting is awesome.

Myrmornis 14y ago

How do you indent your code? Not having my editor handle the indentation is the first thing I'd miss.