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At the size of Ford, sales numbers can be at a different mark for what is considered successful than others. Not to mention dealer gamesmanship fudges real sal

At the size of Ford, sales numbers can be at a different mark for what is considered successful than others. Not to mention dealer gamesmanship fudges real sales numbers. As to the Cybertruck it's both interesting and kind of ugly... repairability is another concern/issue as is pure cost... I'm far more interested in the Slate[1] myself. It's probably closer to what a lot of consumers would want in an electric truck. It really feels like a spiritual successor to the OG Jeep (GP). 1. https://www.slate.auto/en

jandrese 9mo ago
I'll be interested in the Slate when I can actually buy one. I've seen far too many startup car companies fail to launch to ever get my hopes up. Also, the hopes that the very first vehicle from a brand new company will be affordable are not realistic. Making affordable vehicles requires production at large scale, and that requires enormous capital investment, which generally means your company needs to already have income. Even if it just to prove to potential investors that you have basic competence. Don't think that just because a billionaire is interested in the project that the funding will be easy. Billionaires don't like to spend their own money and can be easily distracted by newer and shinier projects.
- iancmceachern 9mo ago
  This. When the cyber truck was announced we decided to buy a Super Duty instead. That was 5 years ago. It's now paid off and driven us and our RV all over the country, and still worth more than half it's purchase price with many more miles to go, and no issues at all (knock on wood). A lightning, cyber truck, or even rivian can't do those things. Instead of waiting for a slate just buy a little gas pickup and GO USE IT, live you life!!!
  - wffurr 9mo ago
    >> no issues at all Other than all the CO2, CO, and NOx you've emitted over that time period. The government should have started taxing barrels of oil in the 70s.
    - horsawlarway 9mo ago
      The government started taxing fuel (both gas and diesel) at the federal level in 1932. Individual states go back to 1919.
    - jandrese 9mo ago
      If you want to kill coal and oil just tax them the fair market price of carbon sequestration for the amount of carbon they ultimately emit. Use that money to sequester the carbon. This is how carbon markets should have been set up, but unfortunately that would have killed the modern economy.
    - tracker1 9mo ago
      If that was the goal, then killing nuclear power and holding it back for the past 4 decades was probably the wrong move. Solar and other "renewable" sources aren't enough to meet energy needs now, let alone the near future.
    - iancmceachern 9mo ago
      Look at the same specs for the cyber truck. There is about twice the carbon in the manufacturing of these, so it counts on people driving them for hundreds of thousands of miles, I don't see that happening with them because you can't even take a normal road trip while towing. These things just aren't going to see the miles, because they can't. They're just not usable as trucks. https://insideevs.com/news/719434/tesla-cybertruck-awd-vs-ram-2500-diesel-tow-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/719434/tesla-cybertruck-awd-vs-ra... Also the power plants and diesel generators for the data centers... https://www.selc.org/press-release/new-images-reveal-elon-musks-xai-datacenter-has-nearly-doubled-its-number-of-polluting-unpermitted-gas-turbines/ https://www.selc.org/press-release/new-images-reveal-elon-mu...
      - jandrese 9mo ago
        My understanding is the difference in carbon emission from manufacturing a BEV vs. an ICE vehicle is about 4 tons of carbon, roughly what you would get from 400 gallons of gasoline. So to make up the carbon deficit the BEV needs to drive about 8,000 miles assuming the ICE truck has above average highway MPG. This does assume the electricity comes from renewables though, if you have coal fired electricity then the figure may vary wildly.
  - tracker1 9mo ago
    To be clear, I'm not waiting for it at all... I'm not that interested in EVs for my own use so much... I work from home and not going to buy a new vehicle any time soon. I'm just more interested in it conceptually. Much like I was interested in the Local Motors Rally Fighter, I wasn't ever going to buy one, just thought it was cool. Well, maybe not the same, as the Slate could be something I would actually buy if/when it hits market in any numbers. If it's got a good level of repairability beyond the body/form, then the company collapsing may be a lot less of an issue. The way it's being done does remind me a lot of the original GP (General Purpose) vehicle. Though not necessarily fit for military/combat environments; As fuel is easier to transport than electricity to the middle of nowhere.
everdrive 9mo ago
Same. The Slate is so close to what I actually want out of an EV: basic, utilitarian, cheap, not made out of 5 iPads. It's not perfect, but neither is any of its competition.
horsawlarway 9mo ago
> At the size of Ford, sales numbers can be at a different mark for what is considered successful than others. Does this really hold when Tesla has a considerably higher valuation? Tesla is sitting at an egregious 30x market cap of Ford. If anything... I'd expect them to have sales targets that are ~30x the size of Ford. When you consider that Ford also makes many more models than Tesla (Tesla has like 8 core models incl the cybertruck [and the not-yet-for-sale semi...] , Ford has like 20+) By all measures - Tesla should be considerably more aggressive with sales targets for a core model, and it seems pretty clear the cybertruck is just a slow rolling market failure.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  For 2025, Ford sold about 2.2 million vehicles, Tesla was like 1.6m. Given, more variety for Ford... But there's also margins and supply chains to consider. The Cybertruck is kind of ugly and very expensive... not to mention that no EV truck really does towing well. The fact that the Lightning sold more than the Cybertruck doesn't make it a success. The Cybertruck, imo, is not too different than a limited run sports car from a major car company... it's just a step above a concept car. The Lightning from Ford was an attempt to see if a market was really ready to shift to EV, it largely isn't. Even though I think it's probably a great option for a lot of work truck use, that doesn't include long distances or heavy towing, but then it likely prices itself out of that market segment too.
  - horsawlarway 9mo ago
    I'm not sure what the takeaway from your comment is? I'm not arguing that the F-150 lightning was a commercial success for Ford, I'm suggesting that the argument that Tesla should be held to a different standard on sales numbers feels pretty shaky. Both of these are basically "concept cars", and neither company has really delivered. Both are expensive to make, and have very high sticker prices with low/negative margins (Tesla claims cybertruck is profitable, but they're sitting on an absolutely insane inventory count, which they can't seem to sell... so again... my guess is they're deep in the red for this model if you look at total costs instead)
1234letshaveatw 9mo ago
the god awful range of the Slate is not closer to what a lot of consumers would want in an electric truck
- tracker1 9mo ago
  Plenty of people use pickup/work trucks and travel under 150-250 miles a day.
raw_anon_1111 9mo ago
It’s also the fact that Ford investors care about profits and its stock is not just a meme stock with no relationship to current or future profits like Tesla.
dghlsakjg 9mo ago
I see the slate as the successor of the now extinct (in Can + US) mini-truck. 90s trucks like the small Toyota Truck, old Ford Ranger, Nissan hardbody, etc. The kind of trucks that landscapers are still using, that are beat to shit, and have three features, cheap, load carrying, reliable by way of simplicity.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  I can see that, but I mean in terms of body specs and room to reshape/cover/modify the vehicle to different needs beyond pickup truck. Including a second row of seats.
- k12sosse 9mo ago
  Get a vintage pickup off Autotrader for low 5 figures and put the Edison electric conversion kit on it. It will absolutely melt faces and hearts.

jandrese 9mo ago

I'll be interested in the Slate when I can actually buy one. I've seen far too many startup car companies fail to launch to ever get my hopes up. Also, the hopes that the very first vehicle from a brand new company will be affordable are not realistic. Making affordable vehicles requires production at large scale, and that requires enormous capital investment, which generally means your company needs to already have income. Even if it just to prove to potential investors that you have basic competence. Don't think that just because a billionaire is interested in the project that the funding will be easy. Billionaires don't like to spend their own money and can be easily distracted by newer and shinier projects.

iancmceachern 9mo ago
This. When the cyber truck was announced we decided to buy a Super Duty instead. That was 5 years ago. It's now paid off and driven us and our RV all over the country, and still worth more than half it's purchase price with many more miles to go, and no issues at all (knock on wood). A lightning, cyber truck, or even rivian can't do those things. Instead of waiting for a slate just buy a little gas pickup and GO USE IT, live you life!!!
- wffurr 9mo ago
  >> no issues at all Other than all the CO2, CO, and NOx you've emitted over that time period. The government should have started taxing barrels of oil in the 70s.
  - horsawlarway 9mo ago
    The government started taxing fuel (both gas and diesel) at the federal level in 1932. Individual states go back to 1919.
  - jandrese 9mo ago
    If you want to kill coal and oil just tax them the fair market price of carbon sequestration for the amount of carbon they ultimately emit. Use that money to sequester the carbon. This is how carbon markets should have been set up, but unfortunately that would have killed the modern economy.
  - tracker1 9mo ago
    If that was the goal, then killing nuclear power and holding it back for the past 4 decades was probably the wrong move. Solar and other "renewable" sources aren't enough to meet energy needs now, let alone the near future.
  - iancmceachern 9mo ago
    Look at the same specs for the cyber truck. There is about twice the carbon in the manufacturing of these, so it counts on people driving them for hundreds of thousands of miles, I don't see that happening with them because you can't even take a normal road trip while towing. These things just aren't going to see the miles, because they can't. They're just not usable as trucks. https://insideevs.com/news/719434/tesla-cybertruck-awd-vs-ram-2500-diesel-tow-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/719434/tesla-cybertruck-awd-vs-ra... Also the power plants and diesel generators for the data centers... https://www.selc.org/press-release/new-images-reveal-elon-musks-xai-datacenter-has-nearly-doubled-its-number-of-polluting-unpermitted-gas-turbines/ https://www.selc.org/press-release/new-images-reveal-elon-mu...
    - jandrese 9mo ago
      My understanding is the difference in carbon emission from manufacturing a BEV vs. an ICE vehicle is about 4 tons of carbon, roughly what you would get from 400 gallons of gasoline. So to make up the carbon deficit the BEV needs to drive about 8,000 miles assuming the ICE truck has above average highway MPG. This does assume the electricity comes from renewables though, if you have coal fired electricity then the figure may vary wildly.
- tracker1 9mo ago
  To be clear, I'm not waiting for it at all... I'm not that interested in EVs for my own use so much... I work from home and not going to buy a new vehicle any time soon. I'm just more interested in it conceptually. Much like I was interested in the Local Motors Rally Fighter, I wasn't ever going to buy one, just thought it was cool. Well, maybe not the same, as the Slate could be something I would actually buy if/when it hits market in any numbers. If it's got a good level of repairability beyond the body/form, then the company collapsing may be a lot less of an issue. The way it's being done does remind me a lot of the original GP (General Purpose) vehicle. Though not necessarily fit for military/combat environments; As fuel is easier to transport than electricity to the middle of nowhere.

everdrive 9mo ago

Same. The Slate is so close to what I actually want out of an EV: basic, utilitarian, cheap, not made out of 5 iPads. It's not perfect, but neither is any of its competition.

horsawlarway 9mo ago

> At the size of Ford, sales numbers can be at a different mark for what is considered successful than others. Does this really hold when Tesla has a considerably higher valuation? Tesla is sitting at an egregious 30x market cap of Ford. If anything... I'd expect them to have sales targets that are ~30x the size of Ford. When you consider that Ford also makes many more models than Tesla (Tesla has like 8 core models incl the cybertruck [and the not-yet-for-sale semi...] , Ford has like 20+) By all measures - Tesla should be considerably more aggressive with sales targets for a core model, and it seems pretty clear the cybertruck is just a slow rolling market failure.

tracker1 9mo ago
For 2025, Ford sold about 2.2 million vehicles, Tesla was like 1.6m. Given, more variety for Ford... But there's also margins and supply chains to consider. The Cybertruck is kind of ugly and very expensive... not to mention that no EV truck really does towing well. The fact that the Lightning sold more than the Cybertruck doesn't make it a success. The Cybertruck, imo, is not too different than a limited run sports car from a major car company... it's just a step above a concept car. The Lightning from Ford was an attempt to see if a market was really ready to shift to EV, it largely isn't. Even though I think it's probably a great option for a lot of work truck use, that doesn't include long distances or heavy towing, but then it likely prices itself out of that market segment too.
- horsawlarway 9mo ago
  I'm not sure what the takeaway from your comment is? I'm not arguing that the F-150 lightning was a commercial success for Ford, I'm suggesting that the argument that Tesla should be held to a different standard on sales numbers feels pretty shaky. Both of these are basically "concept cars", and neither company has really delivered. Both are expensive to make, and have very high sticker prices with low/negative margins (Tesla claims cybertruck is profitable, but they're sitting on an absolutely insane inventory count, which they can't seem to sell... so again... my guess is they're deep in the red for this model if you look at total costs instead)

1234letshaveatw 9mo ago

the god awful range of the Slate is not closer to what a lot of consumers would want in an electric truck

tracker1 9mo ago
Plenty of people use pickup/work trucks and travel under 150-250 miles a day.

raw_anon_1111 9mo ago

It’s also the fact that Ford investors care about profits and its stock is not just a meme stock with no relationship to current or future profits like Tesla.

dghlsakjg 9mo ago

I see the slate as the successor of the now extinct (in Can + US) mini-truck. 90s trucks like the small Toyota Truck, old Ford Ranger, Nissan hardbody, etc. The kind of trucks that landscapers are still using, that are beat to shit, and have three features, cheap, load carrying, reliable by way of simplicity.

tracker1 9mo ago
I can see that, but I mean in terms of body specs and room to reshape/cover/modify the vehicle to different needs beyond pickup truck. Including a second row of seats.
k12sosse 9mo ago
Get a vintage pickup off Autotrader for low 5 figures and put the Edison electric conversion kit on it. It will absolutely melt faces and hearts.