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You are severely misreading why people flag posts about that discuss the administration (whether for or against): they are tiresome to read about, and it doesn'

You are severely misreading why people flag posts about that discuss the administration (whether for or against): they are tiresome to read about, and it doesn't lead to productive interesting discussion (which is supposed to be what the vote buttons are for here). Politics isn't 100% off topic for HN but mostly I come here to get away from it and I'm sure others do too.

NewJazz 9mo ago
This is just conjecture
ceejayoz 9mo ago
Some people do that, yes. Others do what the parent post described. HN is certainly not a monolith, and we've got our share of loons on all extremes of the political spectrum.
heromal 9mo ago
Yeah, because "AI is so great guys!!" is any better.
- kgwxd 9mo ago
  Maybe we'll be able to flag more than 1 type of post someday :/
bix6 9mo ago
I find the political discussions on here interesting and generally of decent+ caliber. Plus so much of what’s happening is tech related / enabled. There’s 30 posts on the front page. If someone doesn’t care about politics why can’t they just ignore that 1 post instead of flagging it into oblivion?
- pureagave 9mo ago
  I agree that it is slightly better than Reddit but often it just turns into a mess that doesn't touch on tech. They are plenty of places for political discussions. HN is a rare great place for tech so personally I'd rather keep it that way.
  - Levitz 9mo ago
    I agree that HN tends to have better discussion, but I'd argue it tends to have better discussion precisely because it's not the norm, so there's input from the type of people that loathe the current state of Reddit on the matter, and also the type of people that do like yapping about it 24/7 are absent from it.
addandsubtract 9mo ago
Is this thread not about the administration? The FBI currently acts at the will of the White House / GOP / Trump. Stick your head in the sand all you want, but don't betray the people who are standing up against oppression.
sofixa 9mo ago
> they are tiresome to read about, and it doesn't lead to productive interesting discussion (which is supposed to be what the vote buttons are for here). Politics isn't 100% off topic for HN but mostly I come here to get away from it and I'm sure others do too. I don't agree. Crypto scams get discussed at length here for days, but when it's a Trump crypto scam, it gets flagged and disappears.
simgoh 9mo ago
> Politics isn't 100% off topic for HN but mostly I come here to get away from it and I'm sure others do too. I sympathize, relate, and I'm not about to lecture you like some corners of the internet about "the privilege" to try and ignore stuff like this, but it is important to keep stuff like this at the forefront. We continue to experience unprecedented life events.
- Levitz 9mo ago
  On the contrary, there's no need whatsoever to even deal with this since it already happens everywhere else, it's not some niche, subtle matter, it's probably the most talked about subject in the last decade.
  - simgoh 9mo ago
    That doesn't really resonate with me because you could make that argument about anything, _especially since_ most of the items that are posted here are links to other websites. There's no need to talk about it here - you could just talk about it at the relevant site(s) comment section.
    - Levitz 9mo ago
      No. I'm not saying "There's is some other place", I'm saying "This is everywhere already", and for that reason there is no need for it to be explicitly here. There is by no means whatsoever any shortage of places in which those discussions could take place. The argument is that it should be everywhere, and I staunchly disagree.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 9mo ago
        > The argument is that it should be everywhere, and I staunchly disagree. The argument is that it should be here, and that is a very reasonable stance. There is no shortage of places where anything can be discussed; that's not the point. "Here", there is a certain expectation around how to comment which makes this place a more interesting discussion forum, no matter the topic. That some topics bring out the worst in some people is not a good reason to make the topic verboten, but instead a reason to be more critical of the commentary under those topics. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. That doesn't say "no divisive topics" for a reason. The topics are not what make this place interesting, but instead the rules of engagement are.
throwworhtthrow 9mo ago
There are many topics discussed on HN that I find tiresome to read about. For example, diet and fitness topics. You could swap the comments from one article to another and not even notice. That's why I stopped reading them. It's never once occurred to me that I should rather open them up, dive into the comments section, and tell the participants that I'm trying to get away from boring discussions about diet and fitness.
MSFT_Edging 9mo ago
There is also a conflict of interest for many in the tech space who browse this forum. Many of the technologies we work on are being abused by this administration. IE Flock being a ycombinator startup, Ring cameras giving free access to police and others[1], AI systems being used for targeting dissent, ad-services and the data they vacuum up being bought by agencies to build up profiles for dissenting citizens[2]. We've watched this type of technology even be used to target the families of people in warzones to explicitly perform war crimes[3]. This is a forum of people who have effectively built the panopticon but don't enjoy hearing about how the panopticon is being used. Politics is now interwoven into our careers whether we like it or not. There is no pure technology, everything we work on effects the world for better or worse. Pulling the wool over our eyes to pretend there's a pure non-political form of talking about these topics is childish and naive. [1] https://www.cnet.com/home/security/amazons-ring-cameras-push-deeper-into-police-and-government-surveillance/ https://www.cnet.com/home/security/amazons-ring-cameras-push... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/tech/the-nsa-buys-americans-internet-data-newly-released-documents-show https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/tech/the-nsa-buys-americans-i... [3] https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/09/10/questions-and-answers-israeli-militarys-use-digital-tools-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/09/10/questions-and-answers-is...
- quietbritishjim 9mo ago
  > There is also a conflict of interest for many in the tech space who browse this forum. Many of the technologies we work on are being abused by this administration. Possibly true. Just irrelevant. I already have far too much exposure to Trump, and I'm not even American. I'd like it not to come up here. You may disagree, and that's fine, but the original question was - why are stories about him flagged. I maintain that the answer, for many people if not nearly all, is simple: ugh, not again.
  - filoeleven 9mo ago
    The "hide" button is right next to the "flag" button.
GJim 9mo ago
> Politics isn't 100% off topic for HN but mostly I come here to get away from it and I'm sure others do too. Whilst I sympathise, it's a bit hard to avoid politics on here, when the tech oligarchs of Silicon Valley are actively supporting a corrupt administration to line their own pockets. A statement of fact that will no doubt earn the ire of many tech-bro's.
afavour 9mo ago
I understand the instinct to remove "politics" from HN but it's fuzzier than that. There were great HN-related conversations to be had around DOGE and what it was (purportedly) trying to achieve with automation, AI, replacing old code bases etc. There was a fascinating discussion about COBOL and what DOGE didn't understand and it immediately got flagged off the front page. Same thing recently with Grok and non-consensual adult content. Folks on HN are well placed to speak knowledgeably about it yet it is instantly voted off the front page. Difficult not to see it as folks plugging their fingers in their ears. And there are folks on here that are flagging things because they paint the administration in a bad light. There are DOGE folks here, there are Palantir folks, etc. etc., I don't think you can dismiss those motivations even if they aren't true for you personally. I think the core problem is that flagging system is too powerful and too anonymous.
- Teever 9mo ago
  The no politics rule on HN is the equivalent of "the suspect smelled like marijuana so I had probable cause to search his car." -- it gives the moderators a plausible reason to remove content they don't want on here while maintaining an air of legitimacy around the removable because thems the rules. Donald Trump has threatened to annex my country. Are posts about that political? Sure doesn't seem like it to me. From my persective this subject seems more like an existential threat then a discussion about policy. But I suppose to Americans it is just a matter of policy and politcs. The incessent posts about Bay Area housing regulations -- political or not? Seems pretty political to me but apparently it isn't?
  - tdeck 9mo ago
    Sorry, your country potentially being annexed just doesn't spark curious discussion. We've seen this with the other 5 countries that were annexed: just a lot of tiresome complaints and people flagging each other in the comments. When I'm hiding in my basement from the Patriot Press Gangs, I want to read about the difference between TCP Reno and TCP Tahoe, not about some boring politics.
    - 9mo ago
mullingitover 9mo ago
Flagging off news about current events (whether you support the regime or not) is counterproductive to a forum nominally for the startup community. Startup founders need to be aware of the environment they are operating in, so if the current environment is a corrupt fascist authoritarian one then you need to be prepared to operate in that type of business environment. If you now need to bribe certain officials in the regime in order for your startup to succeed, for example, flagging posts about how that's necessary is counterproductive.
an0malous 9mo ago
First, there's no way you could even know that. Second, that justification doesn't make sense because you could just not read the post. There's even a feature to hide it for yourself. Third, that's not what flagging is for. Per the HN guidelines, posts should be flagged if they're spam or off topic, not if you personally find them tiresome.

NewJazz 9mo ago

This is just conjecture

ceejayoz 9mo ago

Some people do that, yes. Others do what the parent post described. HN is certainly not a monolith, and we've got our share of loons on all extremes of the political spectrum.

heromal 9mo ago

Yeah, because "AI is so great guys!!" is any better.

kgwxd 9mo ago
Maybe we'll be able to flag more than 1 type of post someday :/

bix6 9mo ago

I find the political discussions on here interesting and generally of decent+ caliber. Plus so much of what’s happening is tech related / enabled. There’s 30 posts on the front page. If someone doesn’t care about politics why can’t they just ignore that 1 post instead of flagging it into oblivion?

pureagave 9mo ago
I agree that it is slightly better than Reddit but often it just turns into a mess that doesn't touch on tech. They are plenty of places for political discussions. HN is a rare great place for tech so personally I'd rather keep it that way.
- Levitz 9mo ago
  I agree that HN tends to have better discussion, but I'd argue it tends to have better discussion precisely because it's not the norm, so there's input from the type of people that loathe the current state of Reddit on the matter, and also the type of people that do like yapping about it 24/7 are absent from it.

addandsubtract 9mo ago

Is this thread not about the administration? The FBI currently acts at the will of the White House / GOP / Trump. Stick your head in the sand all you want, but don't betray the people who are standing up against oppression.

sofixa 9mo ago

> they are tiresome to read about, and it doesn't lead to productive interesting discussion (which is supposed to be what the vote buttons are for here). Politics isn't 100% off topic for HN but mostly I come here to get away from it and I'm sure others do too. I don't agree. Crypto scams get discussed at length here for days, but when it's a Trump crypto scam, it gets flagged and disappears.

simgoh 9mo ago

> Politics isn't 100% off topic for HN but mostly I come here to get away from it and I'm sure others do too. I sympathize, relate, and I'm not about to lecture you like some corners of the internet about "the privilege" to try and ignore stuff like this, but it is important to keep stuff like this at the forefront. We continue to experience unprecedented life events.

Levitz 9mo ago
On the contrary, there's no need whatsoever to even deal with this since it already happens everywhere else, it's not some niche, subtle matter, it's probably the most talked about subject in the last decade.
- simgoh 9mo ago
  That doesn't really resonate with me because you could make that argument about anything, _especially since_ most of the items that are posted here are links to other websites. There's no need to talk about it here - you could just talk about it at the relevant site(s) comment section.
  - Levitz 9mo ago
    No. I'm not saying "There's is some other place", I'm saying "This is everywhere already", and for that reason there is no need for it to be explicitly here. There is by no means whatsoever any shortage of places in which those discussions could take place. The argument is that it should be everywhere, and I staunchly disagree.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 9mo ago
      > The argument is that it should be everywhere, and I staunchly disagree. The argument is that it should be here, and that is a very reasonable stance. There is no shortage of places where anything can be discussed; that's not the point. "Here", there is a certain expectation around how to comment which makes this place a more interesting discussion forum, no matter the topic. That some topics bring out the worst in some people is not a good reason to make the topic verboten, but instead a reason to be more critical of the commentary under those topics. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. That doesn't say "no divisive topics" for a reason. The topics are not what make this place interesting, but instead the rules of engagement are.

throwworhtthrow 9mo ago

There are many topics discussed on HN that I find tiresome to read about. For example, diet and fitness topics. You could swap the comments from one article to another and not even notice. That's why I stopped reading them. It's never once occurred to me that I should rather open them up, dive into the comments section, and tell the participants that I'm trying to get away from boring discussions about diet and fitness.

MSFT_Edging 9mo ago

There is also a conflict of interest for many in the tech space who browse this forum. Many of the technologies we work on are being abused by this administration. IE Flock being a ycombinator startup, Ring cameras giving free access to police and others[1], AI systems being used for targeting dissent, ad-services and the data they vacuum up being bought by agencies to build up profiles for dissenting citizens[2]. We've watched this type of technology even be used to target the families of people in warzones to explicitly perform war crimes[3]. This is a forum of people who have effectively built the panopticon but don't enjoy hearing about how the panopticon is being used. Politics is now interwoven into our careers whether we like it or not. There is no pure technology, everything we work on effects the world for better or worse. Pulling the wool over our eyes to pretend there's a pure non-political form of talking about these topics is childish and naive. [1] https://www.cnet.com/home/security/amazons-ring-cameras-push-deeper-into-police-and-government-surveillance/ https://www.cnet.com/home/security/amazons-ring-cameras-push... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/tech/the-nsa-buys-americans-internet-data-newly-released-documents-show https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/tech/the-nsa-buys-americans-i... [3] https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/09/10/questions-and-answers-israeli-militarys-use-digital-tools-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/09/10/questions-and-answers-is...

quietbritishjim 9mo ago
> There is also a conflict of interest for many in the tech space who browse this forum. Many of the technologies we work on are being abused by this administration. Possibly true. Just irrelevant. I already have far too much exposure to Trump, and I'm not even American. I'd like it not to come up here. You may disagree, and that's fine, but the original question was - why are stories about him flagged. I maintain that the answer, for many people if not nearly all, is simple: ugh, not again.
- filoeleven 9mo ago
  The "hide" button is right next to the "flag" button.

GJim 9mo ago

> Politics isn't 100% off topic for HN but mostly I come here to get away from it and I'm sure others do too. Whilst I sympathise, it's a bit hard to avoid politics on here, when the tech oligarchs of Silicon Valley are actively supporting a corrupt administration to line their own pockets. A statement of fact that will no doubt earn the ire of many tech-bro's.

afavour 9mo ago

I understand the instinct to remove "politics" from HN but it's fuzzier than that. There were great HN-related conversations to be had around DOGE and what it was (purportedly) trying to achieve with automation, AI, replacing old code bases etc. There was a fascinating discussion about COBOL and what DOGE didn't understand and it immediately got flagged off the front page. Same thing recently with Grok and non-consensual adult content. Folks on HN are well placed to speak knowledgeably about it yet it is instantly voted off the front page. Difficult not to see it as folks plugging their fingers in their ears. And there are folks on here that are flagging things because they paint the administration in a bad light. There are DOGE folks here, there are Palantir folks, etc. etc., I don't think you can dismiss those motivations even if they aren't true for you personally. I think the core problem is that flagging system is too powerful and too anonymous.

Teever 9mo ago
The no politics rule on HN is the equivalent of "the suspect smelled like marijuana so I had probable cause to search his car." -- it gives the moderators a plausible reason to remove content they don't want on here while maintaining an air of legitimacy around the removable because thems the rules. Donald Trump has threatened to annex my country. Are posts about that political? Sure doesn't seem like it to me. From my persective this subject seems more like an existential threat then a discussion about policy. But I suppose to Americans it is just a matter of policy and politcs. The incessent posts about Bay Area housing regulations -- political or not? Seems pretty political to me but apparently it isn't?
- tdeck 9mo ago
  Sorry, your country potentially being annexed just doesn't spark curious discussion. We've seen this with the other 5 countries that were annexed: just a lot of tiresome complaints and people flagging each other in the comments. When I'm hiding in my basement from the Patriot Press Gangs, I want to read about the difference between TCP Reno and TCP Tahoe, not about some boring politics.
  - 9mo ago

mullingitover 9mo ago

Flagging off news about current events (whether you support the regime or not) is counterproductive to a forum nominally for the startup community. Startup founders need to be aware of the environment they are operating in, so if the current environment is a corrupt fascist authoritarian one then you need to be prepared to operate in that type of business environment. If you now need to bribe certain officials in the regime in order for your startup to succeed, for example, flagging posts about how that's necessary is counterproductive.

an0malous 9mo ago

First, there's no way you could even know that. Second, that justification doesn't make sense because you could just not read the post. There's even a feature to hide it for yourself. Third, that's not what flagging is for. Per the HN guidelines, posts should be flagged if they're spam or off topic, not if you personally find them tiresome.