6 ms·

Epic fined €1.1M over manipulating children through in app purchases

122 points by hvb2 9mo ago

qweiopqweiop 9mo ago
I used to be obsessed with in game skins as a teenager but I'm very thankful the game I played most didn't charge for them. But I remember freaking out at my parents when they stopped me playing a game one night because I wanted a new skin so badly. I grew out of it, I can't help but feel the scarcity of such skins/items don't lead to anything good except manipulation.
jscheel 9mo ago
Epic generated approximately $6 billion in revenue in 2024, just for comparison.
- nba456_ 9mo ago
  How much in the Netherlands though?
  - irishcoffee 9mo ago
    Is it relevant? "Sorry Netherlands, despite trying to expand into the global market more, this 1.1m fine is just too much." This fine is a rounding error for any big games studio.
    - ben_w 9mo ago
      If the fine for operating unlawfully in the Netherlands is more than the profit, not revenue, from operating in the Netherlands, that it is a reason to stop operating unlawfully in the Netherlands for even the most hard-nosed of businesses. If Epic wishes to operate at a loss in the Netherlands because this is a rounding error, that's their problem.
      - irishcoffee 9mo ago
        They don't even have an office in the Netherlands. I'm not entirely sure they even have employees in the Netherlands. If they've made a net profit over 1.1m in the Netherlands, and I'll bet you $1.1 they have, they did not operate at a loss. This fine is a joke.
  - d3rockk 9mo ago
    The Netherlands typically accounts for roughly 1.5% to 2% of the global video game market. After applying this share to Epic’s global estimated revenue of $5.7 billion, we can estimate roughly $100 million to $115 million for 2024. 1) Total Estimated Epic Revenue: $5.7 billion https://sacra.com/c/epic-games/ https://sacra.com/c/epic-games/ 2) Global Gaming Market: $187.7 billion https://best-of-gaming.be/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024_Newzoo_Global_Games_Market_Report.pdf https://best-of-gaming.be/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024_Ne... 3) The Netherlands Gaming Market Size: $2.5 billion https://www.imarcgroup.com/netherlands-gaming-market https://www.imarcgroup.com/netherlands-gaming-market
sputknick 9mo ago
I'm on Epic's side on this one. Having things for sale in a game is different from "manipulating children" into buying things in a game.
- tosti 9mo ago
  They created artificial scarcity and used time pressure to persuade children into spending their parents money. The fine can't be big enough imho. This is an evil dark-patterned business practise.
  - jsheard 9mo ago
    Speaking of evil dark-patterned business practices, Epic just recently U-turned on lootboxes again. Fortnite did have them originally, but pivoted to the less egregious FOMO sales funnel around when it got really popular, except now they've backtracked by allowing pay-to-win and lootbox mechanics in user-created game modes. https://www.ign.com/articles/as-fortnite-enables-third-party-microtransactions-steal-the-brainrots-developer-is-slammed-by-fans-for-immediately-adding-45-premium-bundles-and-gambling-style-mechanics https://www.ign.com/articles/as-fortnite-enables-third-party... Fortnite's user-created modes are essentially an attempt to compete with Roblox, and like Roblox their age demographics skew very young, so this reads as a deliberate attempt to exploit children specifically.
  - koolala 9mo ago
    Why can't Valve and others get fined for worse designs? Because Teens play Counter-strike and not children?
  - Capricorn2481 9mo ago
    Maybe it has changed since I played it, but I honestly found Fortnite to be pretty non-predatory compared to most live service games. I know that's a low bar, but at least you can just buy stuff when you see them on there. If we looked at the top 100 played steam games, I don't think Fortnite would crack the top 15 for most manipulative.
  - blell 9mo ago
__lain__ 9mo ago
I'm sure they will mourn this crippling loss of a few hours worth of revenue.
- scruple 9mo ago
  Probably more like 90 minutes, tops.
- pixl97 9mo ago
  Hopefully this is the first fine of many. That's where well written laws typically stack up fines as violations persist. This way you don't send some small company into bankruptcy for an actual error, and you eventually start stinging willing offenders so badly they stop at some point.
gassi 9mo ago
This is a slap on the wrist for a company of Epic's size. Anyone know if this comes with restrictions on future in-app purchases made by children, or if these already exist in NL and Epic was ignoring them?
- staplers 9mo ago
  Still cheaper for corporations to commit crimes than if a "child manipulation tax" existed.
mschuster91 9mo ago
Good. Now take on all the free-to-play game ecosystem next. I'm actually thinking about starting up a youtube channel on that topic - the dark patterns, the quasi-gambling, fake ads for medical products (e.g. fat-loss pills [1]) or financial scams [2], it's out of control. [1] https://www.kino.de/tv/warnung-vor-fake-werbung-diese-produkte-zum-abnehmen-hat-es-bei-die-hoehle-der-loewen-nie-gegeben--01K569JRZHGS1NYTZ60BBCQTE3 https://www.kino.de/tv/warnung-vor-fake-werbung-diese-produk... [2] https://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/tech/betrugsmasche-mit-frank-thelen-philip-hopf-und-co-wie-langsam-meta-gegen-finanzbetrueger-vorgeht-a-0878d622-73cc-4a7e-afa3-f1b59f840fb0 https://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/tech/betrugsmasch...
quitit 9mo ago
That's tiny in comparison to the FTC fine. Epic settled with the FTC for more than half a billion. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/fortnite-video-game-maker-epic-games-pay-more-half-billion-dollars-over-ftc-allegations https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/...
- jonway 9mo ago
  Yeah I came to dunk on the sub -0.10% penalty. Wow it’s like why bother right?
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
RestartKernel 9mo ago
Why use a non-English source? Doesn't that encourage people to reply to the headline rather than the article?
- riversflow 9mo ago
  Huh? its 2026. Auto-translate is like table stakes at this point. It is one of my favorite modern innovations, reading foreign journalism is nifty.
- zxcvasd 9mo ago
  The fine was issued in the Netherlands, by a Netherlands government body, regarding kids from the Netherlands. The predominately spoken language in the Netherlands is not English.
- hvb2 9mo ago
  If you would like the actual court decision, you can get that, the language won't be different. Not everything is English :)
reader9274 9mo ago
Why can I read and understand this article...
jmkni 9mo ago
So it was basically worth it?
Stevvo 9mo ago
Epic really don't need to engage in such dirty tricks to get kids money; they do all that to each other. Kids with the default Fortnite skin are bullied, excluded. The social pressure is huge.
akimbostrawman 9mo ago
thats like 1 minute of fortnite revenue which is a ad masqueraded as a game
efsavage 9mo ago
Roblox: Hold my beer
ThunderSizzle 9mo ago
Where does the fine money go? To the victims?
spullara 9mo ago
So glad the courts are letting them run their own app stores.

122 points by hvb2 9mo ago

I used to be obsessed with in game skins as a teenager but I'm very thankful the game I played most didn't charge for them. But I remember freaking out at my parents when they stopped me playing a game one night because I wanted a new skin so badly. I grew out of it, I can't help but feel the scarcity of such skins/items don't lead to anything good except manipulation.

jscheel 9mo ago

Epic generated approximately $6 billion in revenue in 2024, just for comparison.

nba456_ 9mo ago
How much in the Netherlands though?
- irishcoffee 9mo ago
  Is it relevant? "Sorry Netherlands, despite trying to expand into the global market more, this 1.1m fine is just too much." This fine is a rounding error for any big games studio.
  - ben_w 9mo ago
    If the fine for operating unlawfully in the Netherlands is more than the profit, not revenue, from operating in the Netherlands, that it is a reason to stop operating unlawfully in the Netherlands for even the most hard-nosed of businesses. If Epic wishes to operate at a loss in the Netherlands because this is a rounding error, that's their problem.
    - irishcoffee 9mo ago
      They don't even have an office in the Netherlands. I'm not entirely sure they even have employees in the Netherlands. If they've made a net profit over 1.1m in the Netherlands, and I'll bet you $1.1 they have, they did not operate at a loss. This fine is a joke.
- d3rockk 9mo ago
  The Netherlands typically accounts for roughly 1.5% to 2% of the global video game market. After applying this share to Epic’s global estimated revenue of $5.7 billion, we can estimate roughly $100 million to $115 million for 2024. 1) Total Estimated Epic Revenue: $5.7 billion https://sacra.com/c/epic-games/ https://sacra.com/c/epic-games/ 2) Global Gaming Market: $187.7 billion https://best-of-gaming.be/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024_Newzoo_Global_Games_Market_Report.pdf https://best-of-gaming.be/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024_Ne... 3) The Netherlands Gaming Market Size: $2.5 billion https://www.imarcgroup.com/netherlands-gaming-market https://www.imarcgroup.com/netherlands-gaming-market

sputknick 9mo ago

I'm on Epic's side on this one. Having things for sale in a game is different from "manipulating children" into buying things in a game.

tosti 9mo ago
They created artificial scarcity and used time pressure to persuade children into spending their parents money. The fine can't be big enough imho. This is an evil dark-patterned business practise.
- jsheard 9mo ago
  Speaking of evil dark-patterned business practices, Epic just recently U-turned on lootboxes again. Fortnite did have them originally, but pivoted to the less egregious FOMO sales funnel around when it got really popular, except now they've backtracked by allowing pay-to-win and lootbox mechanics in user-created game modes. https://www.ign.com/articles/as-fortnite-enables-third-party-microtransactions-steal-the-brainrots-developer-is-slammed-by-fans-for-immediately-adding-45-premium-bundles-and-gambling-style-mechanics https://www.ign.com/articles/as-fortnite-enables-third-party... Fortnite's user-created modes are essentially an attempt to compete with Roblox, and like Roblox their age demographics skew very young, so this reads as a deliberate attempt to exploit children specifically.
- koolala 9mo ago
  Why can't Valve and others get fined for worse designs? Because Teens play Counter-strike and not children?
- Capricorn2481 9mo ago
  Maybe it has changed since I played it, but I honestly found Fortnite to be pretty non-predatory compared to most live service games. I know that's a low bar, but at least you can just buy stuff when you see them on there. If we looked at the top 100 played steam games, I don't think Fortnite would crack the top 15 for most manipulative.
- blell 9mo ago

__lain__ 9mo ago

I'm sure they will mourn this crippling loss of a few hours worth of revenue.

scruple 9mo ago
Probably more like 90 minutes, tops.
pixl97 9mo ago
Hopefully this is the first fine of many. That's where well written laws typically stack up fines as violations persist. This way you don't send some small company into bankruptcy for an actual error, and you eventually start stinging willing offenders so badly they stop at some point.

gassi 9mo ago

This is a slap on the wrist for a company of Epic's size. Anyone know if this comes with restrictions on future in-app purchases made by children, or if these already exist in NL and Epic was ignoring them?

staplers 9mo ago
Still cheaper for corporations to commit crimes than if a "child manipulation tax" existed.

mschuster91 9mo ago

Good. Now take on all the free-to-play game ecosystem next. I'm actually thinking about starting up a youtube channel on that topic - the dark patterns, the quasi-gambling, fake ads for medical products (e.g. fat-loss pills [1]) or financial scams [2], it's out of control. [1] https://www.kino.de/tv/warnung-vor-fake-werbung-diese-produkte-zum-abnehmen-hat-es-bei-die-hoehle-der-loewen-nie-gegeben--01K569JRZHGS1NYTZ60BBCQTE3 https://www.kino.de/tv/warnung-vor-fake-werbung-diese-produk... [2] https://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/tech/betrugsmasche-mit-frank-thelen-philip-hopf-und-co-wie-langsam-meta-gegen-finanzbetrueger-vorgeht-a-0878d622-73cc-4a7e-afa3-f1b59f840fb0 https://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/tech/betrugsmasch...

quitit 9mo ago

That's tiny in comparison to the FTC fine. Epic settled with the FTC for more than half a billion. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/fortnite-video-game-maker-epic-games-pay-more-half-billion-dollars-over-ftc-allegations https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/...

jonway 9mo ago
Yeah I came to dunk on the sub -0.10% penalty. Wow it’s like why bother right?

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

RestartKernel 9mo ago

Why use a non-English source? Doesn't that encourage people to reply to the headline rather than the article?

riversflow 9mo ago
Huh? its 2026. Auto-translate is like table stakes at this point. It is one of my favorite modern innovations, reading foreign journalism is nifty.
zxcvasd 9mo ago
The fine was issued in the Netherlands, by a Netherlands government body, regarding kids from the Netherlands. The predominately spoken language in the Netherlands is not English.
hvb2 9mo ago
If you would like the actual court decision, you can get that, the language won't be different. Not everything is English :)

reader9274 9mo ago

Why can I read and understand this article...

jmkni 9mo ago

So it was basically worth it?

Stevvo 9mo ago

Epic really don't need to engage in such dirty tricks to get kids money; they do all that to each other. Kids with the default Fortnite skin are bullied, excluded. The social pressure is huge.

akimbostrawman 9mo ago

thats like 1 minute of fortnite revenue which is a ad masqueraded as a game

efsavage 9mo ago

Roblox: Hold my beer

ThunderSizzle 9mo ago

Where does the fine money go? To the victims?

spullara 9mo ago

So glad the courts are letting them run their own app stores.