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It'd be real cool if all the second amendment (guns) people cared as much about the first amendment (free speech and freedom of press). "They're gonna take my

It'd be real cool if all the second amendment (guns) people cared as much about the first amendment (free speech and freedom of press). "They're gonna take my guns away!" Yet that never happens. But people are being targeted for what they say, for disagreeing publicly. That's real. And a lot of "patriots" don't seem to notice or care.

ceejayoz 10mo ago
> And a lot of "patriots" don't seem to notice or care. They notice. They care. They just love it. The "free speech absolutist" folks never were.
petcat 10mo ago
People care more about their guns because, in their minds, that's the last thing that stands between them and complete helplessness. They have fantasies of starting up an Idaho or Montana-style militia to protect themselves from the liberal and immigrant hoards.
- eunoia 10mo ago
  It was never principled opposition to anything, just a power fantasy that the current admin lets them live even more viscerally.
Nifty3929 10mo ago
The guns haven't been taken away only because people do care so much about the 2nd amendment. Those people understand that the 2nd amendment is the only ultimate defense for the people against the government. I too wish people also cared as much about the 1st amendment, but sadly I think the tide is turning on that. Too many on both the right and left seem okay with censorship and harassment.
- k2enemy 10mo ago
  Kind of ironic that there's a big overlap in the venn diagram between 2nd amendment enthusiasts and the crowd that is cheering on the government's authoritarian actions.
  - chung8123 10mo ago
    There isn't, it just appears that way. There is a subset of people that are cheering on the government in this situation and they are 2nd amendment supporters but the 2nd amendment supporters are much larger than that overlap. Things like this is just another way of trying to drive a wedge.
  - anon84873628 10mo ago
    Because the visible 2A enthusiasts essentially trace a lineage to the KKK. Of course, they don't actually care about upholding the Constitution or fighting tyranny. That was just a convenient cover tactic and accusation to use against political opponents.
  - xdennis 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - thunderfork 10mo ago
      >vigilantism (what Renee Good was doing) Good luck defining vigilanteism in a coherent way that includes "operating a motor vehicle near ICE agents".
- jeroenhd 10mo ago
  With the government harassing, attacking, and now killing innocent American citizens, I'm not so sure if the second amendment is working out so well. With the ridiculous leeway American law enforcement has when it comes to harming people ("qualified immunity"), I don't think that second amendment will be relevant until there's an outright civil war happening. And when it comes to that, one or both sides have access to predator drones and fighter jets.
  - Nifty3929 10mo ago
    Not civil war, but a revolution. The 2nd amendment isn't worth much except as a very last resort, when the vast majority of people are willing to die to overthrow a government, as we're seeing in Iran. The people claiming that having guns won't save you against the weight of the army are only partly correct. Having a few guns won't save me personally. I would certainly be killed on my own. But no government can kill everyone, either as a practical matter, or simply because you still need folks to produce the food. When everybody is armed, the government simply cannot oppress them to the same degree.
  - anon84873628 10mo ago
    Imagine every protestor you see on video was instead standing rank and file in the street with a rifle on their shoulder. I.e. a well regulated militia. That would sure send a very different message, wouldn't it?
    - watwut 10mo ago
      Message that "yes these are thugs and it is ok to kill them". Police can kill you if they feel fear or pretend to feel fear. And having a gun was already ruled valid legal reasom for police to kill people. If protesters carried guns, ICE could legally murder them. Not just J.D.Vance legaly, but legaly per how courts interpret such situations.
      - anon84873628 10mo ago
        Well then that will be something for the courts to sort out, especially in the open carry states. But I think you are underestimating the effect it will have on individual federal agents, who might decide the pay isn't good enough anymore. These scenes are also put on for the benefit of the politicians watching.
eunoia 10mo ago
The “don’t tread on me” folks converted to “comply or die” shockingly quickly.
- actionfromafar 10mo ago
  "Don't tread on me, tread on them"
notepad0x90 10mo ago
it's a universal thing I think. in self-defense, when your life is at risk, you can use those guns, what do you have to lose. But in every other case, you have more to lose so guns are useless outside of use by aggressors. They don't need to take your gun away, they just need to give you enough reasons to not use them. And even in 1779, it required lots of planning and coordination, and lots of loss to life and property to achieve change that way. The focus should be more on elected politicians, and voters themselves and how they vote/not vote. If the mid-terms were being held today, how many people would vote? It's scary, who wants to risk their lives for a vote? not many. I fear the governors of states will have to intervene, and the way that goes might lead to a conflict with the federal gov.
dabluecaboose 10mo ago
[flagged]
- dabluecaboose 10mo ago
  Adding this on as a separate thought: If you genuinely think we're at the point that we need to start shooting, the onus is on YOU to get armed, get trained, and take action. Don't expect anyone else to come and fight for you, especially those you perceive as your political enemies.
- codezero 10mo ago
  It took me 15 minutes to buy an AR-15 and a pistol in 2025, how did the left do this?
  - dabluecaboose 10mo ago
    Well done! Step one is getting armed, and step two is training. There are a lot of good resources out there for non-right-wing shooters, such as InRangeTV.
    - codezero 10mo ago
      Yep I practice and watch much of guntube.
  - pjc50 10mo ago
    OK, now what happens when you show up in front of an ICE agent while carrying an AR-15? How, specifically, do you use the gun to effect political change?
    - wasabi991011 10mo ago
      Sure, but this has nothing to do with gun ownership policy or the political left. Edit: oh, you were responding to the second half of their comment, not the first. I see.
    - 10mo ago
joering2 10mo ago
Take it for whats its worth but I been good friends with someone who works in Newsom camp, and constantly goes for a bite with his team. They talk alot. The main theme now is how to use illegal immigration situation to their benefit. If Newsom is elected President, he wants to go door to door in search for illegal guns that illegals are harboring. Of course all this is BS, or in such insignificant amount that its rather irrelevant. But they want to use Republican's hate for immigrants to help them catalog all serials numbers and ownership of us-owned guns. To some degree it will be fun to watch the "all she had to do is comply with Federal law not to get killed while running away in her car" people rounded up and having their guns cataloged in the name of fight with illegal immigration, and in accordance with Federal law :)
- SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
  In your “it would be fun to see people I don’t like being killed” you have conflated legal gun ownership that you don’t like to illegally crossing the remaining the borders of a country… and you can’t see it huh?
  - mos_basik 10mo ago
    You're misquoting them. They said "it would be fun to see [people I don't like] have their guns cataloged."
- aftbit 10mo ago
  Huh? Are you saying that if Gavin Newsom is elected, rather than turning down the rhetoric, restoring the rule of law, and taking the pressure off of the immigrants and brown people who are scapegoats of the current administration, he instead wants to commit violations of the 4th amendment under the color of searching for immigrants but _actually_ in order to find firearms that are legally owned by US citizens? Presumably in preparation for a mass violation of the 2nd amendment (aka "round 'em up boys")? And your source for this is ... you're friends with someone who works "in the Newsom camp" and you go out for lunch with them? I'll be honest, this sounds like some crazy conspiracy theory, so I'm gonna take it for what it's worth ... nothing.
fullstick 10mo ago
It feels like all of the "patriots" joined ICE.
- nobody9999 10mo ago
  >It feels like all of the "patriots" joined ICE. That's certainly possible. Maybe even likely. Fortunately, we now have more information[0] to correlate whether or not that's true. Perhaps soon we'll see a "Show HN" with a searchable database of those folks with links to known "patriot" groups. That would be interesting. [0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/whistleblower-leaks-personal-data-of-about-4500-ice-and-border-patrol-employees/ar-AA1Ua7kx https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/whistleblower-leaks-person...
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 10mo ago
    The link is interesting. > the dataset includes names, work emails, phone numbers, job roles, and other employment details for frontline agents and support staff—a level of detail that has alarmed officials concerned about the safety and privacy of federal employees and their families Worth noting that all of the information specified is public information and the people it concerns are public officials.
SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
> "They're gonna take my guns away!" Yet that never happens That never happens because the parties vested in that right resist every single time. Effectively. With real numbers. Not media campaigns or propaganda social media mechanisms. Largely without protesting, with no need to get into degrees of legality in doing so. You don’t get to say “that never happens” as if it isn’t the explicit goal of an entire political party. You get to realize “we don’t let that happen”. As to current events… the mass deportation guy won elections, why is it you expect armed resistance to federal officers carrying out the exact thing the majority of voters wanted? You can disagree on anything you like, but, I find the “why aren’t people shooting federal officers who are enforcing immigration law!?” posts to be extreme affirmations of echo chamber. If you don’t like it, get your reps to change the laws, not suggest murdering people who you don’t like.
- captainclam 10mo ago
  Not asking adversarially at all here: what do you mean by resisting with "real numbers" without media campaigns, social media, or protesting? What do the vested parties actually do to secure their second amendment rights? Do you just mean having large voting blocs?
- mrtesthah 10mo ago
  No matter how many people vote for something, congress and the president do not have the right to infringe upon peoples’ fourth (searches & seizures) and 14th amendment (due process) rights. Federal agents are systematically violating those rights and not being held accountable due to a blatantly partisan supreme court. With no other alternative, it will be up to everyday citizens to stop those offenses and seek justice.
shimman 10mo ago
The second amendment people are quite fine with the current administration. All you're learning is what real power means and sadly what performative opposition does (nothing).
jimkleiber 10mo ago
You articulated it: "They're gonna take MY ___ away!" It's not about taking guns or free speech, it's about taking THEIR guns or free speech. I don't think they're bad people, just think sometimes we humans seem stuck in a very us vs them mindset and it becomes more about my team vs your team than anything else.

ceejayoz 10mo ago

> And a lot of "patriots" don't seem to notice or care. They notice. They care. They just love it. The "free speech absolutist" folks never were.

petcat 10mo ago

People care more about their guns because, in their minds, that's the last thing that stands between them and complete helplessness. They have fantasies of starting up an Idaho or Montana-style militia to protect themselves from the liberal and immigrant hoards.

eunoia 10mo ago
It was never principled opposition to anything, just a power fantasy that the current admin lets them live even more viscerally.

Nifty3929 10mo ago

The guns haven't been taken away only because people do care so much about the 2nd amendment. Those people understand that the 2nd amendment is the only ultimate defense for the people against the government. I too wish people also cared as much about the 1st amendment, but sadly I think the tide is turning on that. Too many on both the right and left seem okay with censorship and harassment.

k2enemy 10mo ago
Kind of ironic that there's a big overlap in the venn diagram between 2nd amendment enthusiasts and the crowd that is cheering on the government's authoritarian actions.
- chung8123 10mo ago
  There isn't, it just appears that way. There is a subset of people that are cheering on the government in this situation and they are 2nd amendment supporters but the 2nd amendment supporters are much larger than that overlap. Things like this is just another way of trying to drive a wedge.
- anon84873628 10mo ago
  Because the visible 2A enthusiasts essentially trace a lineage to the KKK. Of course, they don't actually care about upholding the Constitution or fighting tyranny. That was just a convenient cover tactic and accusation to use against political opponents.
- xdennis 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - thunderfork 10mo ago
    >vigilantism (what Renee Good was doing) Good luck defining vigilanteism in a coherent way that includes "operating a motor vehicle near ICE agents".
jeroenhd 10mo ago
With the government harassing, attacking, and now killing innocent American citizens, I'm not so sure if the second amendment is working out so well. With the ridiculous leeway American law enforcement has when it comes to harming people ("qualified immunity"), I don't think that second amendment will be relevant until there's an outright civil war happening. And when it comes to that, one or both sides have access to predator drones and fighter jets.
- Nifty3929 10mo ago
  Not civil war, but a revolution. The 2nd amendment isn't worth much except as a very last resort, when the vast majority of people are willing to die to overthrow a government, as we're seeing in Iran. The people claiming that having guns won't save you against the weight of the army are only partly correct. Having a few guns won't save me personally. I would certainly be killed on my own. But no government can kill everyone, either as a practical matter, or simply because you still need folks to produce the food. When everybody is armed, the government simply cannot oppress them to the same degree.
- anon84873628 10mo ago
  Imagine every protestor you see on video was instead standing rank and file in the street with a rifle on their shoulder. I.e. a well regulated militia. That would sure send a very different message, wouldn't it?
  - watwut 10mo ago
    Message that "yes these are thugs and it is ok to kill them". Police can kill you if they feel fear or pretend to feel fear. And having a gun was already ruled valid legal reasom for police to kill people. If protesters carried guns, ICE could legally murder them. Not just J.D.Vance legaly, but legaly per how courts interpret such situations.
    - anon84873628 10mo ago
      Well then that will be something for the courts to sort out, especially in the open carry states. But I think you are underestimating the effect it will have on individual federal agents, who might decide the pay isn't good enough anymore. These scenes are also put on for the benefit of the politicians watching.

eunoia 10mo ago

The “don’t tread on me” folks converted to “comply or die” shockingly quickly.

actionfromafar 10mo ago
"Don't tread on me, tread on them"

notepad0x90 10mo ago

it's a universal thing I think. in self-defense, when your life is at risk, you can use those guns, what do you have to lose. But in every other case, you have more to lose so guns are useless outside of use by aggressors. They don't need to take your gun away, they just need to give you enough reasons to not use them. And even in 1779, it required lots of planning and coordination, and lots of loss to life and property to achieve change that way. The focus should be more on elected politicians, and voters themselves and how they vote/not vote. If the mid-terms were being held today, how many people would vote? It's scary, who wants to risk their lives for a vote? not many. I fear the governors of states will have to intervene, and the way that goes might lead to a conflict with the federal gov.

dabluecaboose 10mo ago

[flagged]

dabluecaboose 10mo ago
Adding this on as a separate thought: If you genuinely think we're at the point that we need to start shooting, the onus is on YOU to get armed, get trained, and take action. Don't expect anyone else to come and fight for you, especially those you perceive as your political enemies.
codezero 10mo ago
It took me 15 minutes to buy an AR-15 and a pistol in 2025, how did the left do this?
- dabluecaboose 10mo ago
  Well done! Step one is getting armed, and step two is training. There are a lot of good resources out there for non-right-wing shooters, such as InRangeTV.
  - codezero 10mo ago
    Yep I practice and watch much of guntube.
- pjc50 10mo ago
  OK, now what happens when you show up in front of an ICE agent while carrying an AR-15? How, specifically, do you use the gun to effect political change?
  - wasabi991011 10mo ago
    Sure, but this has nothing to do with gun ownership policy or the political left. Edit: oh, you were responding to the second half of their comment, not the first. I see.
  - 10mo ago

joering2 10mo ago

Take it for whats its worth but I been good friends with someone who works in Newsom camp, and constantly goes for a bite with his team. They talk alot. The main theme now is how to use illegal immigration situation to their benefit. If Newsom is elected President, he wants to go door to door in search for illegal guns that illegals are harboring. Of course all this is BS, or in such insignificant amount that its rather irrelevant. But they want to use Republican's hate for immigrants to help them catalog all serials numbers and ownership of us-owned guns. To some degree it will be fun to watch the "all she had to do is comply with Federal law not to get killed while running away in her car" people rounded up and having their guns cataloged in the name of fight with illegal immigration, and in accordance with Federal law :)

SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
In your “it would be fun to see people I don’t like being killed” you have conflated legal gun ownership that you don’t like to illegally crossing the remaining the borders of a country… and you can’t see it huh?
- mos_basik 10mo ago
  You're misquoting them. They said "it would be fun to see [people I don't like] have their guns cataloged."
aftbit 10mo ago
Huh? Are you saying that if Gavin Newsom is elected, rather than turning down the rhetoric, restoring the rule of law, and taking the pressure off of the immigrants and brown people who are scapegoats of the current administration, he instead wants to commit violations of the 4th amendment under the color of searching for immigrants but _actually_ in order to find firearms that are legally owned by US citizens? Presumably in preparation for a mass violation of the 2nd amendment (aka "round 'em up boys")? And your source for this is ... you're friends with someone who works "in the Newsom camp" and you go out for lunch with them? I'll be honest, this sounds like some crazy conspiracy theory, so I'm gonna take it for what it's worth ... nothing.

fullstick 10mo ago

It feels like all of the "patriots" joined ICE.

nobody9999 10mo ago
>It feels like all of the "patriots" joined ICE. That's certainly possible. Maybe even likely. Fortunately, we now have more information[0] to correlate whether or not that's true. Perhaps soon we'll see a "Show HN" with a searchable database of those folks with links to known "patriot" groups. That would be interesting. [0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/whistleblower-leaks-personal-data-of-about-4500-ice-and-border-patrol-employees/ar-AA1Ua7kx https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/whistleblower-leaks-person...
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 10mo ago
  The link is interesting. > the dataset includes names, work emails, phone numbers, job roles, and other employment details for frontline agents and support staff—a level of detail that has alarmed officials concerned about the safety and privacy of federal employees and their families Worth noting that all of the information specified is public information and the people it concerns are public officials.

SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago

> "They're gonna take my guns away!" Yet that never happens That never happens because the parties vested in that right resist every single time. Effectively. With real numbers. Not media campaigns or propaganda social media mechanisms. Largely without protesting, with no need to get into degrees of legality in doing so. You don’t get to say “that never happens” as if it isn’t the explicit goal of an entire political party. You get to realize “we don’t let that happen”. As to current events… the mass deportation guy won elections, why is it you expect armed resistance to federal officers carrying out the exact thing the majority of voters wanted? You can disagree on anything you like, but, I find the “why aren’t people shooting federal officers who are enforcing immigration law!?” posts to be extreme affirmations of echo chamber. If you don’t like it, get your reps to change the laws, not suggest murdering people who you don’t like.

captainclam 10mo ago
Not asking adversarially at all here: what do you mean by resisting with "real numbers" without media campaigns, social media, or protesting? What do the vested parties actually do to secure their second amendment rights? Do you just mean having large voting blocs?
mrtesthah 10mo ago
No matter how many people vote for something, congress and the president do not have the right to infringe upon peoples’ fourth (searches & seizures) and 14th amendment (due process) rights. Federal agents are systematically violating those rights and not being held accountable due to a blatantly partisan supreme court. With no other alternative, it will be up to everyday citizens to stop those offenses and seek justice.

shimman 10mo ago

The second amendment people are quite fine with the current administration. All you're learning is what real power means and sadly what performative opposition does (nothing).

jimkleiber 10mo ago

You articulated it: "They're gonna take MY ___ away!" It's not about taking guns or free speech, it's about taking THEIR guns or free speech. I don't think they're bad people, just think sometimes we humans seem stuck in a very us vs them mindset and it becomes more about my team vs your team than anything else.