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Price seems to be a pretty big factor, as well as the lack of any charging infrastructure. There’s also the fact that a lot of scooter owning families don’t hav

by spaceman_2020 9mo ago

Price seems to be a pretty big factor, as well as the lack of any charging infrastructure. There’s also the fact that a lot of scooter owning families don’t have dedicated parking spaces in/outside their homes - not even enough to put up a charging point The other problem is that the pricing for any decent eScooter starts hitting the same price range as a mid-range (for India) bike The Ola S1 Pro has the same price as Bajaj NS200. In the Indian context, bikes have way more street appeal. Even a cursory glance would tell you that the Bajaj NS200 looks way cooler than Ola S1. So at that price range, a consumer essentially has to decide between a cool 150-200cc motorcycle from a trusted manufacturer, or a rather uncool electric scooter from a brand new manufacturer with reports of unreliability, poor charging infrastructure and unknown long term longevity

alephnerd 9mo ago
> same price range as a mid-range (for India) bike Or a used Maruti Suzuki. My relatives from small town India all decided to buy 1-2L used cars instead of an EV Bike when upgrading. The issue is consumers are aspirational, and a two-wheeler just isn't viewed as a positive anymore, as DyCM DK Shivakumar crassly pointed out [0] That said, I am optimistic about the prospect of EV cars in small town India in the next 5-10 years, as the dealerships also function as EV charge points, and distances traveled are much lower so range anxiety isn't as significant. [0] - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/dk-shivakumar-to-mass-transport-fans-public-transport-is-fine-but-try-finding-a-bride-without-owing-a-car/articleshow/124879989.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/dk-shivak...
- porridgeraisin 9mo ago
  Tier ? cities like Coimbatore already have great EV penetration compared to the metros. Due to better charging infra, and low 4W penetration. Basically low penetration overall. Of course. Taxis stick to the CNG Dzire, so maruti will always appear really high in market share numbers. And they have the aspirational SUV owner covered too with Ertiga (7 seater for 9L).
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    Oh yea cities that are Coimbatore, Nagpur, or Ludhiana tier have already seen a boom in car (EV or Gas) sales, but the main market being targeted now is small towns (think Palani, Satara, or Kurkushetra type urban settlements). Basically, if a Domino's, KFC, Chaayos, Reliance SMART, or Motilal Oswal can operate in that district, it has become a target market for consumers, and most dealflow is now trying to find opportunities to enter that market (eg. Lahori Zeera).
- idiotsecant 9mo ago
  It seems like this is going to be an infrastructure uh oh situation when enough consumers manage to get cars.
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    That's why the Indian government has started subsidizing EV bus procurement along with co-financing metro and light rail expansion projects. Most Tier 2/3 cities have Metro, Light Rail, or BRTS projects that are either active, under development, or in the midst of financing.
  - spaceman_2020 9mo ago
    I don't really think India has much of a road infrastructure quantity problem. Its more of a quality and management problem
- graemep 9mo ago
  Its not just aspirations. Cars are safer and a lot more comfortable - especially air-conditioned cars in a hot climate.
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    While safety does play a role, it isn't the primary driver of decisions. For example, if consumers were truly worried about safety, most consumers wouldn't drive without seatbelts or car seats for minors. Across Asia - be it India, Vietnam, China, or Korea - traditional norms remain strong, and not being able to even afford a $4-6k car bodes poorly on your earning power and thus your marriageability given that traditional status milestones like a 2LDK, kids educated at private school, destination tourism, and higher education abroad are difficult if you cannot afford that.
    - graemep 9mo ago
      All that is true, but I was not claiming it is the primary driver, but that safety and comfort mattered too. With seatbelts I think the biggest problem is most people simply do not understand how much safer you are if you wear seatbelts - people who will pay a premium for a "safer" car and not wear seatbelts. I as not familiar with the term 2LDK. it seems to be a Japanese term for a two bed flat? The places I know are less crowded and the equivalent would be a house or somewhere a lot bigger (at least for anyone who could afford higher education abroad).
      - alephnerd 9mo ago
        > All that is true, but I was not claiming it is the primary driver, but that safety and comfort mattered too. Absolutely! Though comfort would be rated much higher than safety. > I as not familiar with the term 2LDK. it seems to be a Japanese term for a two bed flat? The places I know are less crowded and the equivalent would be a house or somewhere a lot bigger (at least for anyone who could afford higher education abroad). In India and Vietnam, a 2 or 3 bedroom flat/condo would often be part of a gated community/society that includes 24/7 security, park/greenspace, gym, swimming pool, playgrounds, and schools, and would have a mall across the street that includes a mix of Western (eg. McD, Starbucks, Levi's) and domestic (eg. Chaayos, Third Wave, VinFast) aspirational brands. A good example would probably be this gated community/society [0] in a Tier 3 industrial town called Bhiwadi - most residents would be working as Mechanical, Automotive, Chemical, Electronics, Tooling, Semiconductor, and Automation Engineers or Managers at companies like Honda, Tata, Saint-Gobain, Lumax, Maruti Suzuki, Motherson, or Sahasra with a take-home in the $8-20k range (and with 0% income tax below $13k). This is the Indian (and Vietnamese) Dream. Most of the residents will have studied in regional engineering colleges and polytechnics and then started off as trainees, and have close familial roots in the region, as regional mobility in India is extremely low [1], and as such factories have decided to move to small towns and Tier 2/3/4 cities in order to be closer to labor. You this all over India like in Mysore with DigiLens [2], Anantapuram with Hyundai-Kia [3] Baddi with AstraZeneca [4], and others. Even in my ancestral village, there has been a wind turbine factory operating since the mid-2000s that exports to the US and Western Europe, and a home-turned-EV battery factory operating since the early 2010s that exports to ASEAN. In Vietnam it's the same story except labor moves away from small towns to megacities because in much of VN, the rural safety net (derisively called "freebies" in India) is weak-to-nonexistent pushing labor migration away from small towns to Saigon, Hanoi, and Haiphong. Finally, at $10-20k/year, international education isn't that expensive - at that income you can get a loan term for US$20k-25k/yr, which is what international tuition (including dorm fees) tend to cost in the UK, Australia, and Canada - people in the Tier 2 and below middle class don't know the difference between Oxford and Oxford Brookes, and crap tier universities in the Commonwealth take advantage of that (eg. Oxford Brookes and RMIT), pissing off domestic students and leading to the immigration backlash and pissing off Indians and Vietnamese who are starting to view British and Australian services as an inferior good. The same thing happened in China a decade ago as well. [0] - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=krPLXO38ZxY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=krPLXO38ZxY [1] - https://voxdev.org/topic/migration-urbanisation/why-labour-mobility-india-so-low https://voxdev.org/topic/migration-urbanisation/why-labour-m... [2] - https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251003VL202/xr-optics-kaynes-technology-supply-chain-india.html https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251003VL202/xr-optics-kayn... [3] - https://www.kia.com/in/discover-kia/kia-in-india/india-plant.html https://www.kia.com/in/discover-kia/kia-in-india/india-plant... [4] - https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2010/AstraZeneca-Extends-Branded-Generics-Capability-With-Torrent-Agreement-11032010.html# https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2010...

alephnerd 9mo ago

> same price range as a mid-range (for India) bike Or a used Maruti Suzuki. My relatives from small town India all decided to buy 1-2L used cars instead of an EV Bike when upgrading. The issue is consumers are aspirational, and a two-wheeler just isn't viewed as a positive anymore, as DyCM DK Shivakumar crassly pointed out [0] That said, I am optimistic about the prospect of EV cars in small town India in the next 5-10 years, as the dealerships also function as EV charge points, and distances traveled are much lower so range anxiety isn't as significant. [0] - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/dk-shivakumar-to-mass-transport-fans-public-transport-is-fine-but-try-finding-a-bride-without-owing-a-car/articleshow/124879989.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/dk-shivak...

porridgeraisin 9mo ago
Tier ? cities like Coimbatore already have great EV penetration compared to the metros. Due to better charging infra, and low 4W penetration. Basically low penetration overall. Of course. Taxis stick to the CNG Dzire, so maruti will always appear really high in market share numbers. And they have the aspirational SUV owner covered too with Ertiga (7 seater for 9L).
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  Oh yea cities that are Coimbatore, Nagpur, or Ludhiana tier have already seen a boom in car (EV or Gas) sales, but the main market being targeted now is small towns (think Palani, Satara, or Kurkushetra type urban settlements). Basically, if a Domino's, KFC, Chaayos, Reliance SMART, or Motilal Oswal can operate in that district, it has become a target market for consumers, and most dealflow is now trying to find opportunities to enter that market (eg. Lahori Zeera).
idiotsecant 9mo ago
It seems like this is going to be an infrastructure uh oh situation when enough consumers manage to get cars.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  That's why the Indian government has started subsidizing EV bus procurement along with co-financing metro and light rail expansion projects. Most Tier 2/3 cities have Metro, Light Rail, or BRTS projects that are either active, under development, or in the midst of financing.
- spaceman_2020 9mo ago
  I don't really think India has much of a road infrastructure quantity problem. Its more of a quality and management problem
graemep 9mo ago
Its not just aspirations. Cars are safer and a lot more comfortable - especially air-conditioned cars in a hot climate.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  While safety does play a role, it isn't the primary driver of decisions. For example, if consumers were truly worried about safety, most consumers wouldn't drive without seatbelts or car seats for minors. Across Asia - be it India, Vietnam, China, or Korea - traditional norms remain strong, and not being able to even afford a $4-6k car bodes poorly on your earning power and thus your marriageability given that traditional status milestones like a 2LDK, kids educated at private school, destination tourism, and higher education abroad are difficult if you cannot afford that.
  - graemep 9mo ago
    All that is true, but I was not claiming it is the primary driver, but that safety and comfort mattered too. With seatbelts I think the biggest problem is most people simply do not understand how much safer you are if you wear seatbelts - people who will pay a premium for a "safer" car and not wear seatbelts. I as not familiar with the term 2LDK. it seems to be a Japanese term for a two bed flat? The places I know are less crowded and the equivalent would be a house or somewhere a lot bigger (at least for anyone who could afford higher education abroad).
    - alephnerd 9mo ago
      > All that is true, but I was not claiming it is the primary driver, but that safety and comfort mattered too. Absolutely! Though comfort would be rated much higher than safety. > I as not familiar with the term 2LDK. it seems to be a Japanese term for a two bed flat? The places I know are less crowded and the equivalent would be a house or somewhere a lot bigger (at least for anyone who could afford higher education abroad). In India and Vietnam, a 2 or 3 bedroom flat/condo would often be part of a gated community/society that includes 24/7 security, park/greenspace, gym, swimming pool, playgrounds, and schools, and would have a mall across the street that includes a mix of Western (eg. McD, Starbucks, Levi's) and domestic (eg. Chaayos, Third Wave, VinFast) aspirational brands. A good example would probably be this gated community/society [0] in a Tier 3 industrial town called Bhiwadi - most residents would be working as Mechanical, Automotive, Chemical, Electronics, Tooling, Semiconductor, and Automation Engineers or Managers at companies like Honda, Tata, Saint-Gobain, Lumax, Maruti Suzuki, Motherson, or Sahasra with a take-home in the $8-20k range (and with 0% income tax below $13k). This is the Indian (and Vietnamese) Dream. Most of the residents will have studied in regional engineering colleges and polytechnics and then started off as trainees, and have close familial roots in the region, as regional mobility in India is extremely low [1], and as such factories have decided to move to small towns and Tier 2/3/4 cities in order to be closer to labor. You this all over India like in Mysore with DigiLens [2], Anantapuram with Hyundai-Kia [3] Baddi with AstraZeneca [4], and others. Even in my ancestral village, there has been a wind turbine factory operating since the mid-2000s that exports to the US and Western Europe, and a home-turned-EV battery factory operating since the early 2010s that exports to ASEAN. In Vietnam it's the same story except labor moves away from small towns to megacities because in much of VN, the rural safety net (derisively called "freebies" in India) is weak-to-nonexistent pushing labor migration away from small towns to Saigon, Hanoi, and Haiphong. Finally, at $10-20k/year, international education isn't that expensive - at that income you can get a loan term for US$20k-25k/yr, which is what international tuition (including dorm fees) tend to cost in the UK, Australia, and Canada - people in the Tier 2 and below middle class don't know the difference between Oxford and Oxford Brookes, and crap tier universities in the Commonwealth take advantage of that (eg. Oxford Brookes and RMIT), pissing off domestic students and leading to the immigration backlash and pissing off Indians and Vietnamese who are starting to view British and Australian services as an inferior good. The same thing happened in China a decade ago as well. [0] - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=krPLXO38ZxY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=krPLXO38ZxY [1] - https://voxdev.org/topic/migration-urbanisation/why-labour-mobility-india-so-low https://voxdev.org/topic/migration-urbanisation/why-labour-m... [2] - https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251003VL202/xr-optics-kaynes-technology-supply-chain-india.html https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251003VL202/xr-optics-kayn... [3] - https://www.kia.com/in/discover-kia/kia-in-india/india-plant.html https://www.kia.com/in/discover-kia/kia-in-india/india-plant... [4] - https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2010/AstraZeneca-Extends-Branded-Generics-Capability-With-Torrent-Agreement-11032010.html# https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2010...