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As a recent STEM graduate (Masters in CS), what irks me is the relentless focus on job experience. I don't even get interviews for jobs requiring a high school

by EricDeb 14y ago

As a recent STEM graduate (Masters in CS), what irks me is the relentless focus on job experience. I don't even get interviews for jobs requiring a high school/GED equivalence + 3 years of experience. There seems to be little faith in our STEM programs among tech recruiters/companies.

coliveira 14y ago
That's the important point is being missed. Despite what they say, this industry doesn't care about technical education. You will see people with masters doing the same work as people without a Bachelors, and the same for PhDs. As a result, there is no point in getting more education if the companies will not even consider it. Additionally, this is also tells me that what you need to advance is these companies is how politically savvy you are, instead of how much education you have.
randomdata 14y ago
I don't think it is lack of faith, just the fact that college was never meant to be vocational training in the first place. While it is an amazing achievement for you, I'm sure, it doesn't mean much to the rest of us. Additionally, it is so easy to gain experience in this industry, just take a month or two to publish your own application and watch the job offers start rolling in, I would imagine these companies consider not having any a bit of red flag. Maybe you can put some of the code you wrote while in school up on GitHub or something to demonstrate that you actually really do have experience? (it doesn't necessarily had to have been for-profit to still count as experience) Hopefully this doesn't come off sounding harsh, just trying to provide some perspective.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  Contributing to open source projects, particularly well-known ones with strong communities, is another way to get resume experience and network with people.
- EricDeb 14y ago
  I definitely agree. It just seems that if these companies and recruiters were really that desperate they would consider a Master's in CS as even a second-tier substitute, or at least someone who could ramp up quickly.
  - randomdata 14y ago
    I feel the reality is that there really is not a shortage of programmers in general, just a shortage of programmers who have extensive experience in technology X, Y, or Z that is presently in demand. If a company has to fall back on "second-teir" talent, I expect the pool is vast and the competition is stiff. I'm not sure where to find data to back that up, unfortunately, but the anecdotes I see do support it. My bet is that even if, say, you spent many years writing Ruby on Rails applications and you are the best there is at it, you still wouldn't get a call back for a job writing telephone systems in Erlang, even if you have enough experience and ability to quickly get up to speed to do the job well. This seems like also a good explanation for the sharp decline in over-35 programmers. The technologies they grew up on are no longer in fashion, so they are, in general, relegated back to lower-teir talent pools and have to struggle to find work along with everyone else.

by EricDeb 14y ago

coliveira 14y ago

That's the important point is being missed. Despite what they say, this industry doesn't care about technical education. You will see people with masters doing the same work as people without a Bachelors, and the same for PhDs. As a result, there is no point in getting more education if the companies will not even consider it. Additionally, this is also tells me that what you need to advance is these companies is how politically savvy you are, instead of how much education you have.

randomdata 14y ago

I don't think it is lack of faith, just the fact that college was never meant to be vocational training in the first place. While it is an amazing achievement for you, I'm sure, it doesn't mean much to the rest of us. Additionally, it is so easy to gain experience in this industry, just take a month or two to publish your own application and watch the job offers start rolling in, I would imagine these companies consider not having any a bit of red flag. Maybe you can put some of the code you wrote while in school up on GitHub or something to demonstrate that you actually really do have experience? (it doesn't necessarily had to have been for-profit to still count as experience) Hopefully this doesn't come off sounding harsh, just trying to provide some perspective.

cpeterso 14y ago
Contributing to open source projects, particularly well-known ones with strong communities, is another way to get resume experience and network with people.
EricDeb 14y ago
I definitely agree. It just seems that if these companies and recruiters were really that desperate they would consider a Master's in CS as even a second-tier substitute, or at least someone who could ramp up quickly.
- randomdata 14y ago
  I feel the reality is that there really is not a shortage of programmers in general, just a shortage of programmers who have extensive experience in technology X, Y, or Z that is presently in demand. If a company has to fall back on "second-teir" talent, I expect the pool is vast and the competition is stiff. I'm not sure where to find data to back that up, unfortunately, but the anecdotes I see do support it. My bet is that even if, say, you spent many years writing Ruby on Rails applications and you are the best there is at it, you still wouldn't get a call back for a job writing telephone systems in Erlang, even if you have enough experience and ability to quickly get up to speed to do the job well. This seems like also a good explanation for the sharp decline in over-35 programmers. The technologies they grew up on are no longer in fashion, so they are, in general, relegated back to lower-teir talent pools and have to struggle to find work along with everyone else.