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One is a sitting president, one hasn't been in a decade. What do you believe is more pressing, and why?

by janfoeh 9mo ago

RickJWagner 9mo ago
A good question. As the ACLU notes, Obamas use of ICE is similar to Trumps. I believe if people are sincere, they should condemn either neither or both. If they refuse to condemn Obama, but do condemn Trump, I do not believe they can make a good argument about compassion. That may change the conversation, which I think would lead to a more logical discussion.
- thrance 9mo ago
  You've used this Obama deflection half a dozen time already, and everytime you do people will answer that they were never fans of ICE, even under Obama. Yet you continue to use it, again and again and again... The real question is why, among all these blatantly illegal actions and violent acts perpetrated against the US population that we keep hearing of, you still feel the urge to jump in and defend ICE and Trump?
  - RickJWagner 9mo ago
    Because the Democrat politicians encouraging the agitators are aligned with Obama. Obama is a great orator, and a historic figure. If we don’t remind people that he used ICE much like Trump did, we could end up with a historic injustice. If you call Trump a monster for his use of ICE ( as the ACLU does ), you should also call Obama a monster ( also as the ACLU does ). It’s only fair. If it’s still not clear, I’ll give a historical example. Bill Clinton molested several women, paid out large sums of money, etc. The man was a lech. But women’s organizations supported him and gave him cover for several years. ( I.e. NOW, the national organization of women ). Clinton was named ‘Father if the year’ by some organization. Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle? It seemed there was no end to the hypocrisy. Finally, thankfully, #MeToo came along and the truth was acknowledged. That’s why I keep throwing this out there. The truth must be acknowledged. You can’t call Trump a monster without calling Obama a monster, too.
    - thrance 9mo ago
      > That’s why I keep throwing this out there. The truth must be acknowledged. You can’t call Trump a monster without calling Obama a monster, too. Except no one is disputing this "truth". You're making up a strawman. Clearly, no one on the Left cares to defend Obama over his use of ICE, you must have realized this by now. But you keep bringing him up whenever ICE does anything illegal or abhorrent (which is daily now). Why is that? And I am yet to hear you condemn anything. > Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle? Not really, when the current President was Epstein's best friend, a known pedophile, and is embroiled in several rape affairs. Clearly the Right does not care about women, they even ran on an anti-feminism agenda. When Trump said "grab her by the pussy" during the campaign it did not make any waves in right-wing circles. On the other hand, outside of the most dickless liberal circles, people on the Left are extremely quick to criticize/condemn democratic leaders: Biden, Obama, Clinton... Even Harris, people were extremely mad over her awful campaign. Meanwhile, I am yet to see a single republican criticize Trump over literally anything. The guy did multiple crypto-scams, received obvious bribes (one of them an entire plane) from islamic dictatorships, is knee-deep in a major international pedophilia scandal, etc. Dead silence from the right. Like right now, you keep deflecting whenever ICE does something bad. I have not seen you even acknowledge that ICE stealing from citizens is bad. You keep doing whataboutisms for some reason.
      - RickJWagner 9mo ago
        Here’s Mike Pence on Trump: https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/07/politics/video/src-pence-on-jan6-anniversary https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/07/politics/video/src-pence-on-j... Here’s Mitt Romney on Trump: https://pbswisconsin.org/watch/newshour/mitt-romney-s-full-speech-trump-is-a-phony-a-fraud-1464221736/ https://pbswisconsin.org/watch/newshour/mitt-romney-s-full-s... Here’s George Bush: https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_popover_share.aspx?guid=db8a9a2b-f5fd-4b40-a924-c3b957f82957 https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_popover_shar... So I don’t understand why you say Republicans don’t criticize Trump. As you can see, they criticize him very harshly, for a number of things. Please explain what you meant. Now for the Democrats, please show me an article about a Democrat disowning Obama for his use of ICE. The bigger the politician, the better.

One is a sitting president, one hasn't been in a decade. What do you believe is more pressing, and why?

by janfoeh 9mo ago

One is a sitting president, one hasn't been in a decade. What do you believe is more pressing, and why?

A good question. As the ACLU notes, Obamas use of ICE is similar to Trumps. I believe if people are sincere, they should condemn either neither or both. If they refuse to condemn Obama, but do condemn Trump, I do not believe they can make a good argument about compassion. That may change the conversation, which I think would lead to a more logical discussion.

thrance 9mo ago
You've used this Obama deflection half a dozen time already, and everytime you do people will answer that they were never fans of ICE, even under Obama. Yet you continue to use it, again and again and again... The real question is why, among all these blatantly illegal actions and violent acts perpetrated against the US population that we keep hearing of, you still feel the urge to jump in and defend ICE and Trump?
- RickJWagner 9mo ago
  Because the Democrat politicians encouraging the agitators are aligned with Obama. Obama is a great orator, and a historic figure. If we don’t remind people that he used ICE much like Trump did, we could end up with a historic injustice. If you call Trump a monster for his use of ICE ( as the ACLU does ), you should also call Obama a monster ( also as the ACLU does ). It’s only fair. If it’s still not clear, I’ll give a historical example. Bill Clinton molested several women, paid out large sums of money, etc. The man was a lech. But women’s organizations supported him and gave him cover for several years. ( I.e. NOW, the national organization of women ). Clinton was named ‘Father if the year’ by some organization. Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle? It seemed there was no end to the hypocrisy. Finally, thankfully, #MeToo came along and the truth was acknowledged. That’s why I keep throwing this out there. The truth must be acknowledged. You can’t call Trump a monster without calling Obama a monster, too.
  - thrance 9mo ago
    > That’s why I keep throwing this out there. The truth must be acknowledged. You can’t call Trump a monster without calling Obama a monster, too. Except no one is disputing this "truth". You're making up a strawman. Clearly, no one on the Left cares to defend Obama over his use of ICE, you must have realized this by now. But you keep bringing him up whenever ICE does anything illegal or abhorrent (which is daily now). Why is that? And I am yet to hear you condemn anything. > Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle? Not really, when the current President was Epstein's best friend, a known pedophile, and is embroiled in several rape affairs. Clearly the Right does not care about women, they even ran on an anti-feminism agenda. When Trump said "grab her by the pussy" during the campaign it did not make any waves in right-wing circles. On the other hand, outside of the most dickless liberal circles, people on the Left are extremely quick to criticize/condemn democratic leaders: Biden, Obama, Clinton... Even Harris, people were extremely mad over her awful campaign. Meanwhile, I am yet to see a single republican criticize Trump over literally anything. The guy did multiple crypto-scams, received obvious bribes (one of them an entire plane) from islamic dictatorships, is knee-deep in a major international pedophilia scandal, etc. Dead silence from the right. Like right now, you keep deflecting whenever ICE does something bad. I have not seen you even acknowledge that ICE stealing from citizens is bad. You keep doing whataboutisms for some reason.
    - RickJWagner 9mo ago
      Here’s Mike Pence on Trump: https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/07/politics/video/src-pence-on-jan6-anniversary https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/07/politics/video/src-pence-on-j... Here’s Mitt Romney on Trump: https://pbswisconsin.org/watch/newshour/mitt-romney-s-full-speech-trump-is-a-phony-a-fraud-1464221736/ https://pbswisconsin.org/watch/newshour/mitt-romney-s-full-s... Here’s George Bush: https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_popover_share.aspx?guid=db8a9a2b-f5fd-4b40-a924-c3b957f82957 https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_popover_shar... So I don’t understand why you say Republicans don’t criticize Trump. As you can see, they criticize him very harshly, for a number of things. Please explain what you meant. Now for the Democrats, please show me an article about a Democrat disowning Obama for his use of ICE. The bigger the politician, the better.