4 ms·

For dense areas, mesh applications like BitChat (Jack Dorsey) could bypass the need for a network with p2p bluetooth mesh networks. And works with existing devi

For dense areas, mesh applications like BitChat (Jack Dorsey) could bypass the need for a network with p2p bluetooth mesh networks. And works with existing devices, vs something like meshtastic which needs an installed base (afaik). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitchat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitchat

Gigachad 9mo ago
Does it actually work though? My experience with Meshtastic is it’s so difficult to get a message delivered beyond the nearest hop that it’s almost useless. And Bluetooth has a significantly shorter range than LoRa.
- wiml 9mo ago
  The LoRa enthusiasts in my area seem to all have moved to Meshcore, largely because of a quirk in Meshtastic's routing algorithm that doesn't handle nodes with widely varying visibility/power/noisefloor well. They report regularly getting traffic hundreds of miles. There might be a couple mountaintop repeaters in the mesh though. For OP's situation I think runners and a store and forward system like Scuttlebutt/Briar/etc might work better. But I'd love to see a couple of thorough case studies on that kind of system, they've been around for many years targeting related scenarios.
  - MarsIronPI 9mo ago
    Out of curiosity, how to Meshtastic and Meshcore compare to Reticulum?
    - wiml 9mo ago
      At a glance, Reticulum assumes more resources on a node and more stable and well behaved links than the others, and places a much higher priority on crypto. I don't know how it fares in real world LoRa deployments.
  - Gigachad 9mo ago
    I’ve tried MeshCore as well and discovered zero nodes. At least what I’ve seen it looks like Meshtastic implemented the same routing fixes MeshCore has. I think the issue is more that getting a message many kilometres out using a couple of nodes sitting in non prime locations is just unreliable. The noise is too high. There’s also a limit on how many messages can be sent while using flood routing.
    - bb88 9mo ago
      But did all the nodes and repeaters update to the version of meshtastic with routing? Meshcore started with routing out of the box. I don't think it's the noise that's too high, my original understanding of the meshtastic 2.0 protocol (from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v6UbC5blJU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v6UbC5blJU) was that an edge device would receive priority. So the message might go the wrong direction, say. Or, worse, a meshtastic radio in a basement might get priority. Because they didn't understand (or care about) network topologies from the start and reliable message transmission, not to mention the versions of devices that are still on their network, I'm guessing it's gonna be a couple more years before they finally get their act together.
      - Gigachad 9mo ago
        I would say there are significantly more nodes on the Meshtastic network with the latest routing than there are MeshCore nodes. A gap that will likely only increase over time. In Melbourne, Australia I was able to pick up 450 nodes on Meshtastic while I got zero on MeshCore after weeks of searching.
        bb88 9mo ago
        With networks like meshtastic there's this sweet spot of density. Not enough density, no message throughput. Too much density, also no message throughput. It's one of these things where for the early adopters it worked great, but then the late adopters got pissed off because it didn't work. As for meshtastic: I'm one god damned fucking hop away from my friend through a repeater. And it doesn't fucking work!

Gigachad 9mo ago

Does it actually work though? My experience with Meshtastic is it’s so difficult to get a message delivered beyond the nearest hop that it’s almost useless. And Bluetooth has a significantly shorter range than LoRa.

wiml 9mo ago
The LoRa enthusiasts in my area seem to all have moved to Meshcore, largely because of a quirk in Meshtastic's routing algorithm that doesn't handle nodes with widely varying visibility/power/noisefloor well. They report regularly getting traffic hundreds of miles. There might be a couple mountaintop repeaters in the mesh though. For OP's situation I think runners and a store and forward system like Scuttlebutt/Briar/etc might work better. But I'd love to see a couple of thorough case studies on that kind of system, they've been around for many years targeting related scenarios.
- MarsIronPI 9mo ago
  Out of curiosity, how to Meshtastic and Meshcore compare to Reticulum?
  - wiml 9mo ago
    At a glance, Reticulum assumes more resources on a node and more stable and well behaved links than the others, and places a much higher priority on crypto. I don't know how it fares in real world LoRa deployments.
- Gigachad 9mo ago
  I’ve tried MeshCore as well and discovered zero nodes. At least what I’ve seen it looks like Meshtastic implemented the same routing fixes MeshCore has. I think the issue is more that getting a message many kilometres out using a couple of nodes sitting in non prime locations is just unreliable. The noise is too high. There’s also a limit on how many messages can be sent while using flood routing.
  - bb88 9mo ago
    But did all the nodes and repeaters update to the version of meshtastic with routing? Meshcore started with routing out of the box. I don't think it's the noise that's too high, my original understanding of the meshtastic 2.0 protocol (from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v6UbC5blJU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v6UbC5blJU) was that an edge device would receive priority. So the message might go the wrong direction, say. Or, worse, a meshtastic radio in a basement might get priority. Because they didn't understand (or care about) network topologies from the start and reliable message transmission, not to mention the versions of devices that are still on their network, I'm guessing it's gonna be a couple more years before they finally get their act together.
    - Gigachad 9mo ago
      I would say there are significantly more nodes on the Meshtastic network with the latest routing than there are MeshCore nodes. A gap that will likely only increase over time. In Melbourne, Australia I was able to pick up 450 nodes on Meshtastic while I got zero on MeshCore after weeks of searching.
      - bb88 9mo ago
        With networks like meshtastic there's this sweet spot of density. Not enough density, no message throughput. Too much density, also no message throughput. It's one of these things where for the early adopters it worked great, but then the late adopters got pissed off because it didn't work. As for meshtastic: I'm one god damned fucking hop away from my friend through a repeater. And it doesn't fucking work!