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I would like to see a solution that addresses this issue too. Perhaps something like http://news.ycombinator.com/classic http://news.ycombinator.com/classic bu

I would like to see a solution that addresses this issue too. Perhaps something like http://news.ycombinator.com/classic http://news.ycombinator.com/classic but instead of users who have been on HN for a year, you pick the users. Some AI programmers might suggest that HN itself could figure out what users typically upvote the same content as you -- no thanks, I can pick them out myself. A tag/keyword system would be ideal but that's a lot of work and tags never seem to turn out as good as they sound. (also, `larrys`, you died yesterday -- hellbanned, and looking at your comment history yesterday, seems like an entirely inappropriate response from the mods)

nbashaw 14y ago
Or a modified version of the follow model would be interesting.
k3n 14y ago
Where are you seeing `larrys`? The guy you're replying to doesn't seem to be "larrys", and when I looked at larrys profile here on HN I can see there was some recent arguing, but nothing that I would think would merit a ban, and additionally, I don't see a 'inappropriate response from the mods' (but perhaps I'm not sure what to look for; do mods get special CSS styling or anything?). I'm confusered.
- AgentConundrum 14y ago
  You can't reply directly to hellbanned users, so a lot of people reply to the person such a user was replying to, to try to send them a message that they've been banned. Most users won't see these comments/users. If you go to your user page, you'll see an option called "showdead". Enable that ('Yes'), and you'll see these messages.
  - k3n 14y ago
    Thanks! That clears things up.
papsosouid 14y ago
>hellbanned, and looking at your comment history yesterday, seems like an entirely inappropriate response from the mods) Isn't that normally the case here? I've seen more people shadow banned for seemingly no reason than I've seen shadow banned for a legit reason. The whole point of shadow bans is supposed to be to waste the time of obvious trolls, here it is used randomly and seemingly as the only response to any perceived misbehaviour, so whatever wrong-doing is perceived never gets corrected, people just make a new account and continue as before. By far the most baffling and absurd aspect of HN.
- sbierwagen 14y ago
  I've been hellbanned twice.
  - aneth4 14y ago
    Were you restored or did you open a new account?
    - sbierwagen 14y ago
      I stopped using "sbierwagen" when my flag button was removed, and my downvote button disabled. (The second one turns out to be temporary-- just don't downvote so many people) The next two accounts, being of fairly low karma and recently made, got hellbanned within a couple months, for saying things "sbierwagen" could easily get away with.
- aneth4 14y ago
  Any discussion of the hellban procedure seems a quick way to be hellbanned. It's a horrible, unjust, arbitrary system and is generally abused by anonymous, seemingly petty moderators. My main account was hellbanned (also slowbanned, and my IP address banned) for apparently replying to the wrong mystery moderator with something he/she didn't like. Hellbanning on HN is sorely in need of oversight and reconsideration. Hellbanning should be used only for obvious trolls. There are other ways to punish and train bad behavior from legitimate contributors.
SiVal 14y ago
How do you know that someone else has been banned? How do you know if YOU have? What's "hellbanned"? What's "shadow banned"?
- k3n 14y ago
  You can look them up (the terms that is, not the users), but here's a good start: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/suspension-ban-or-hellban.html http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/suspension-ban-or-h... I think they're the same (or at least similar), and basically you're invisible to everyone but yourself. This is a 'safer' form of banning, as someone who is outright banned would notice right away and might try to get revenge in some way. But, if everything works just like always and they don't realize they're banned, then they won't get upset (and won't raise hell).
aneth4 14y ago
Also, his complaint about speed is likely because he is slowbanned in addition to being hellbanned. It seems pretty clear there are moderators inappropriately hellbanning users for personal gripes. Hellbanning is an unnecessarily hurtful and cowardly way to deal with people other than outright trolls.

nbashaw 14y ago

Or a modified version of the follow model would be interesting.

k3n 14y ago

Where are you seeing `larrys`? The guy you're replying to doesn't seem to be "larrys", and when I looked at larrys profile here on HN I can see there was some recent arguing, but nothing that I would think would merit a ban, and additionally, I don't see a 'inappropriate response from the mods' (but perhaps I'm not sure what to look for; do mods get special CSS styling or anything?). I'm confusered.

AgentConundrum 14y ago
You can't reply directly to hellbanned users, so a lot of people reply to the person such a user was replying to, to try to send them a message that they've been banned. Most users won't see these comments/users. If you go to your user page, you'll see an option called "showdead". Enable that ('Yes'), and you'll see these messages.
- k3n 14y ago
  Thanks! That clears things up.

papsosouid 14y ago

>hellbanned, and looking at your comment history yesterday, seems like an entirely inappropriate response from the mods) Isn't that normally the case here? I've seen more people shadow banned for seemingly no reason than I've seen shadow banned for a legit reason. The whole point of shadow bans is supposed to be to waste the time of obvious trolls, here it is used randomly and seemingly as the only response to any perceived misbehaviour, so whatever wrong-doing is perceived never gets corrected, people just make a new account and continue as before. By far the most baffling and absurd aspect of HN.

sbierwagen 14y ago
I've been hellbanned twice.
- aneth4 14y ago
  Were you restored or did you open a new account?
  - sbierwagen 14y ago
    I stopped using "sbierwagen" when my flag button was removed, and my downvote button disabled. (The second one turns out to be temporary-- just don't downvote so many people) The next two accounts, being of fairly low karma and recently made, got hellbanned within a couple months, for saying things "sbierwagen" could easily get away with.
aneth4 14y ago
Any discussion of the hellban procedure seems a quick way to be hellbanned. It's a horrible, unjust, arbitrary system and is generally abused by anonymous, seemingly petty moderators. My main account was hellbanned (also slowbanned, and my IP address banned) for apparently replying to the wrong mystery moderator with something he/she didn't like. Hellbanning on HN is sorely in need of oversight and reconsideration. Hellbanning should be used only for obvious trolls. There are other ways to punish and train bad behavior from legitimate contributors.

SiVal 14y ago

How do you know that someone else has been banned? How do you know if YOU have? What's "hellbanned"? What's "shadow banned"?

k3n 14y ago
You can look them up (the terms that is, not the users), but here's a good start: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/suspension-ban-or-hellban.html http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/suspension-ban-or-h... I think they're the same (or at least similar), and basically you're invisible to everyone but yourself. This is a 'safer' form of banning, as someone who is outright banned would notice right away and might try to get revenge in some way. But, if everything works just like always and they don't realize they're banned, then they won't get upset (and won't raise hell).

aneth4 14y ago

Also, his complaint about speed is likely because he is slowbanned in addition to being hellbanned. It seems pretty clear there are moderators inappropriately hellbanning users for personal gripes. Hellbanning is an unnecessarily hurtful and cowardly way to deal with people other than outright trolls.