4 ms·

It would have been easy for you to check whether he was a "MAGA guy or not", which he was in the sense that he spent the last years of his life spreading neonaz

by cess11 9mo ago

It would have been easy for you to check whether he was a "MAGA guy or not", which he was in the sense that he spent the last years of his life spreading neonazi adjacent rhetoric. Some of it goes quite far back, even: https://web.archive.org/web/20070222235609/http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/sunday_blogging.html https://web.archive.org/web/20070222235609/http://dilbertblo...

anonymars 9mo ago
I don't know, I feel like your link makes a better case for the parent's point than your own
- cess11 9mo ago
  If your feelings tend to skew in favour of people suggesting that the jewish death toll in the Shoah was pulled out of the ass by someone, perhaps you'd have some to gain from keeping them in check.
  - anonymars 9mo ago
    That's quite a leap from "I am curious how that number was calculated" to inferring "it was made up" which I think further illustrates the point. Maybe complain to these guys too, who were apparently still curious 14 years after that blog post? https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/documenting-numbers-of-... Sources: Documenting Numbers of Victims of the Holocaust & Nazi Persecution, U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum; “Holocaust Facts: Where Does the Figure of 6 Million Victims Come From?” Haaretz, (January 26, 2020); Ofer Aderet, “Nazis Boasted About Six Million Holocaust Victims. But It Was a Jew Who First Cited That Figure,” Haaretz, (April 21, 2020); Joel Rappel, “Six million victims,” Jerusalem Report, (May 4, 2020).
    - cess11 9mo ago
      "Or is it like every other LRN (large round number) that someone pulled out of his ass and it became true by repetition? Does the figure include resistance fighters and civilians who died in the normal course of war, or just the Jews rounded up and killed systematically? No reasonable person doubts that the Holocaust happened, but wouldn’t you like to know how the exact number was calculated, just for context? Without that context, I don’t know if I should lump the people who think the Holocaust might have been exaggerated for political purposes with the Holocaust deniers. If they are equally nuts, I’d like to know that. I want context." He could have easily figured this out but didn't, because he preferred to publish this neo-nazi adjacent rhetoric. Nazis use this talking point all the time, you see. I.e. it's not at all about curiosity. Arguably Scott Adams was one of the least curious famous persons in history. His cartoons were based on office related cliches, and while that provides a bit of laughter and relief to people who have negative experiences from office environments it's not based on curiosity or interest in people.
      - anonymars 9mo ago
        I am really confused how one can read Holocaust denial into words that literally say "No reasonable person doubts that the Holocaust happened" and "I want to know if people who think [it was] exaggerated ... are equally nuts"
        cess11 9mo ago
        You should probably quote where you think I made that claim.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
        anonymars 9mo ago
        Ok, I'll restate: I am really confused how one can claim as "neo-nazi adjacent rhetoric" words that literally say "No reasonable person doubts that the Holocaust happened" and "I want to know if people who think [it was] exaggerated ... are equally nuts" > Arguably Scott Adams was one of the least curious famous persons in history. That's a bold claim, and I would argue against it based on The Dilbert Future and God's Debris I'll also re-quote OP: "...it's an example of how at the time his statements got oversimplified and distorted...[a]nyway, I saw a lot of examples of that -- he'd have a relatively nuanced take probably expressed too boldly, but people wanted to just lump him in to some narrative they already had going."
- aaaBaaAAAb 9mo ago
  "Just asking questions" about how many people really died in the Holocaust is a common wedge used by deniers to bring people into the fold. If I squint, I can kind of see the point he's trying to make in that article, but why use that example? And what does he mean when he says it's "missing from the news"? Is the news supposed to detail the historical record for him every time the Holocaust is mentioned? The information is there if he wants it (a point he concedes). When viewed in light of his Twitter persona, embrace of Trump / hard right politics in general, and his declaration that black people are a hate group, I really don't know why anyone would be eager to extend him the benefit of the doubt. He provided plenty of ammo himself, no media distortion needed.
overgard 9mo ago
I think that demonstrates more about you than it does about him. Asking "how did you come to this number" is a valid question anytime someone gives you a number that would be hard to calculate. Asking for receipts is not the same as being a neo nazi.. I see extremists (on both sides) do this all the time, you don't argue the actual point you just say its "adjacent to bad thing, thusly bad"

by cess11 9mo ago

anonymars 9mo ago

I don't know, I feel like your link makes a better case for the parent's point than your own

cess11 9mo ago
If your feelings tend to skew in favour of people suggesting that the jewish death toll in the Shoah was pulled out of the ass by someone, perhaps you'd have some to gain from keeping them in check.
- anonymars 9mo ago
  That's quite a leap from "I am curious how that number was calculated" to inferring "it was made up" which I think further illustrates the point. Maybe complain to these guys too, who were apparently still curious 14 years after that blog post? https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/documenting-numbers-of-... Sources: Documenting Numbers of Victims of the Holocaust & Nazi Persecution, U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum; “Holocaust Facts: Where Does the Figure of 6 Million Victims Come From?” Haaretz, (January 26, 2020); Ofer Aderet, “Nazis Boasted About Six Million Holocaust Victims. But It Was a Jew Who First Cited That Figure,” Haaretz, (April 21, 2020); Joel Rappel, “Six million victims,” Jerusalem Report, (May 4, 2020).
  - cess11 9mo ago
    "Or is it like every other LRN (large round number) that someone pulled out of his ass and it became true by repetition? Does the figure include resistance fighters and civilians who died in the normal course of war, or just the Jews rounded up and killed systematically? No reasonable person doubts that the Holocaust happened, but wouldn’t you like to know how the exact number was calculated, just for context? Without that context, I don’t know if I should lump the people who think the Holocaust might have been exaggerated for political purposes with the Holocaust deniers. If they are equally nuts, I’d like to know that. I want context." He could have easily figured this out but didn't, because he preferred to publish this neo-nazi adjacent rhetoric. Nazis use this talking point all the time, you see. I.e. it's not at all about curiosity. Arguably Scott Adams was one of the least curious famous persons in history. His cartoons were based on office related cliches, and while that provides a bit of laughter and relief to people who have negative experiences from office environments it's not based on curiosity or interest in people.
    - anonymars 9mo ago
      I am really confused how one can read Holocaust denial into words that literally say "No reasonable person doubts that the Holocaust happened" and "I want to know if people who think [it was] exaggerated ... are equally nuts"
      - cess11 9mo ago
        You should probably quote where you think I made that claim.
        deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
        anonymars 9mo ago
        Ok, I'll restate: I am really confused how one can claim as "neo-nazi adjacent rhetoric" words that literally say "No reasonable person doubts that the Holocaust happened" and "I want to know if people who think [it was] exaggerated ... are equally nuts" > Arguably Scott Adams was one of the least curious famous persons in history. That's a bold claim, and I would argue against it based on The Dilbert Future and God's Debris I'll also re-quote OP: "...it's an example of how at the time his statements got oversimplified and distorted...[a]nyway, I saw a lot of examples of that -- he'd have a relatively nuanced take probably expressed too boldly, but people wanted to just lump him in to some narrative they already had going."
aaaBaaAAAb 9mo ago
"Just asking questions" about how many people really died in the Holocaust is a common wedge used by deniers to bring people into the fold. If I squint, I can kind of see the point he's trying to make in that article, but why use that example? And what does he mean when he says it's "missing from the news"? Is the news supposed to detail the historical record for him every time the Holocaust is mentioned? The information is there if he wants it (a point he concedes). When viewed in light of his Twitter persona, embrace of Trump / hard right politics in general, and his declaration that black people are a hate group, I really don't know why anyone would be eager to extend him the benefit of the doubt. He provided plenty of ammo himself, no media distortion needed.

overgard 9mo ago

I think that demonstrates more about you than it does about him. Asking "how did you come to this number" is a valid question anytime someone gives you a number that would be hard to calculate. Asking for receipts is not the same as being a neo nazi.. I see extremists (on both sides) do this all the time, you don't argue the actual point you just say its "adjacent to bad thing, thusly bad"