3 ms·

What's wrong with this tho? Maybe we should stop uplifting people when we find out they are nasty individuals. Acting like there aren't also artists that are go

by shimman 10mo ago

What's wrong with this tho? Maybe we should stop uplifting people when we find out they are nasty individuals. Acting like there aren't also artists that are good people is odd, these are the ones deserving our attention. FWIW, I use to be a big fan of Crystal Castles (like listening to 4+ hours a day for close to a decade). It was a core part of my culture diet. Once it was known that Ethan Kath was a sexual predator that groomed teenage girls, I simply stopped listening or talking about them ever. Why is this hard? IDK, it really feels like people put too much of their identity into cultural objects when they lack real communities and people in their lives. Also throwing it out there, I don't really know much about Scott Adams (or his work for that matter). Dilbert comics weren't widespread memes on the phpBB forums I'd post on throughout the 00s and 10s. edit: spelling

rglullis 10mo ago
Why is it so difficult to separate the work from its creator?
- b3lvedere 10mo ago
  Without the creator no work. Can i like the work and hate the creator? Absolutely.
inglor_cz 10mo ago
"What's wrong with this tho?" The thing that is wrong about it is that the purity spiral may get out of control and result in wholesale purging of art, Iconoclast-style (or perhaps Cultural Revolution-style). I don't trust people with an instinct to purge history. They rarely know when to stop. Plus, standards change a lot. Picasso had a teenage mistress. It wasn't as scandalous back then. Should we really be so arrogant as to push our current standards on the entire humanity that once was? If yes, we will be obliterated by the next generation that applies the same logic to us, only with a different set of taboos.
- stetrain 10mo ago
  "Acknowledge the ugliness and try to do better" and purging art and history are different things. The comment you replied to above did not call for a purging of Adams' work or life from history.
  - inglor_cz 10mo ago
    It seems to me that, even here in this discussion, people call for avoiding work of such authors. Would that entail, say, pressure on galleries not to show such art? If so, that is more than half way to a purge.
    - stetrain 10mo ago
      Personally avoiding consumption and calling for a purge from history are not equivalent. Even calling for a boycott or lack of commercialization of something is not purging from history.
    - shimman 10mo ago
      That's not purging at all, words have meaning. If you grep my comment you might be encountering a massive bug if you found the word purge. You can still stream all of Crystal Castles songs on every platform, you can still buy their music, their albums still have hundreds of seeders on trackers. Just as I'm sure you can buy your Dilbert books. Telling people to maybe look up to better humans, which it needs to be stated have always existed and aren't a modern invention, should be encouraged. One of the other threads in here an OP states that we should use this moment to reflect and do better in our own lives, what is wrong with this viewpoint? We've seen countless examples of people getting sucked into social media holes and I've yet to encounter a single case where this has ever led to healthy outcomes.
    - spankalee 10mo ago
      People often like to conflate criticism and personal choice with censorship, but they're not the same. We're allowed to avoid consuming the work of artists we think are horrible humans. We're allowed to encourage others to do that too even. None of that is purging or censorship.
tdeck 10mo ago
Personally I think this (admittedly long) video makes a good agument on the subject. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oG5EpzGmAtA&pp=0gcJCTIBo7VqN5tD https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oG5EpzGmAtA&pp=0gcJCTIBo7VqN5t... My TL;DR Choosing not to financially support a creator for ethical seasons makes sense as an ethical stance. But that doesn't mean the media we like needs to always reflect our values.

by shimman 10mo ago

rglullis 10mo ago

Why is it so difficult to separate the work from its creator?

b3lvedere 10mo ago
Without the creator no work. Can i like the work and hate the creator? Absolutely.

inglor_cz 10mo ago

"What's wrong with this tho?" The thing that is wrong about it is that the purity spiral may get out of control and result in wholesale purging of art, Iconoclast-style (or perhaps Cultural Revolution-style). I don't trust people with an instinct to purge history. They rarely know when to stop. Plus, standards change a lot. Picasso had a teenage mistress. It wasn't as scandalous back then. Should we really be so arrogant as to push our current standards on the entire humanity that once was? If yes, we will be obliterated by the next generation that applies the same logic to us, only with a different set of taboos.

stetrain 10mo ago
"Acknowledge the ugliness and try to do better" and purging art and history are different things. The comment you replied to above did not call for a purging of Adams' work or life from history.
- inglor_cz 10mo ago
  It seems to me that, even here in this discussion, people call for avoiding work of such authors. Would that entail, say, pressure on galleries not to show such art? If so, that is more than half way to a purge.
  - stetrain 10mo ago
    Personally avoiding consumption and calling for a purge from history are not equivalent. Even calling for a boycott or lack of commercialization of something is not purging from history.
  - shimman 10mo ago
    That's not purging at all, words have meaning. If you grep my comment you might be encountering a massive bug if you found the word purge. You can still stream all of Crystal Castles songs on every platform, you can still buy their music, their albums still have hundreds of seeders on trackers. Just as I'm sure you can buy your Dilbert books. Telling people to maybe look up to better humans, which it needs to be stated have always existed and aren't a modern invention, should be encouraged. One of the other threads in here an OP states that we should use this moment to reflect and do better in our own lives, what is wrong with this viewpoint? We've seen countless examples of people getting sucked into social media holes and I've yet to encounter a single case where this has ever led to healthy outcomes.
  - spankalee 10mo ago
    People often like to conflate criticism and personal choice with censorship, but they're not the same. We're allowed to avoid consuming the work of artists we think are horrible humans. We're allowed to encourage others to do that too even. None of that is purging or censorship.

tdeck 10mo ago

Personally I think this (admittedly long) video makes a good agument on the subject. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oG5EpzGmAtA&pp=0gcJCTIBo7VqN5tD https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oG5EpzGmAtA&pp=0gcJCTIBo7VqN5t... My TL;DR Choosing not to financially support a creator for ethical seasons makes sense as an ethical stance. But that doesn't mean the media we like needs to always reflect our values.