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That's not what happened. Why does this keep getting repeated? The videos from different angles are out there for everyone to see.

alex43578 10mo ago
[flagged]
- Sohcahtoa82 10mo ago
  It's absolutely wild to me that two people can watch the same video and come up with completely different conclusions as to what happened. > She sees he is there, puts it in drive, and pulls forward. The fact that her steering was cranked to the right is proof enough that she was not intending on hitting him.
  - alex43578 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - leptons 10mo ago
      He pulled his gun out before she moved the car anywhere. He was already intending to shoot her.
      - alex43578 10mo ago
        You do know that’s a lie easily refuted by all the video evidence, right?
        Sohcahtoa82 10mo ago
        Not at all. I watched the video from Ross's phone. At first, from that angle, it actually looks like he's lunging in front of Good's car, but then I remembered the other angle. He moved his phone from his right hand to his left hand so he could grab his gun. But the car is still traveling in reverse as this happens. And when Good starts moving, the wheel is cranked to the right -- away from Ross. I notice something important: Ross did not back away when the car starting moving. He stood his ground. If Good was intending to run over him, all she would have needed to do was center the wheel, maybe even keep it slightly to the left. But no, she was cranked to the right, away from him. Ross didn't move at all, and didn't get run over. From what I can see, Good hit reverse to execute a 2-point turn to leave, and Ross responded by moving his phone to his left hand so he could unholster his gun with his right. But the fact is, Ross failed to properly act according to training. If you do believe someone is trying to run over you, the proper response is to get the hell out of the way, not stand your ground and shoot the driver. Cars aren't exactly known for stopping just because the driver is dead.
        alex43578 10mo ago
        >He pulled his gun out before she moved the car anywhere So this is a lie, by your own admission. Her car is already moving before he reaches for his gun. -- The tactic of relocating is not a legal requirement. Failing to retreat doesn't prevent him from defending himself. While Minnesota absurdly has "duty to retreat" laws, since he is operating as federal law enforcement he is only required to have "reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death... to the officer", and he can reasonably believe that she is trying to run him over, given she puts it in gear and pulls forward towards him, from a stop, as he's right at her bumper.
        Sohcahtoa82 10mo ago
        I think this is a strong case of a story having her side, his side, and the truth. I think the reasonable position to take is that she was not intending to run him over, but he believed (reasonably) that she was, and so shot. In this case, it'd be wrong to accuse Ross of murder, but it'd also be wrong to label Good as a domestic terrorist as Trump and his administration have been doing.
        alex43578 10mo ago
        Sure, I’m fine with that. The administration, as usual, is making exaggerated and bombastic claims to support a base position that’s actually pretty reasonable (driving towards law enforcement to flee an interaction is dangerous for the driver and LEOs).
        leptons 10mo ago
        She was actually backing up away from the officer that shot her while he was reaching for his gun. So she was moving away from him, and he goes for his gun. The videos clearly shows this.
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    - goatlover 10mo ago
      Law enforcement is trained not to shoot at a moving vehicle because you risk public safety if the driver is incapacitated. Also LE is trained not to put themselves in front or back of the vehicle, since you can get run over that way. Agent Jonathan Ross did not follow his training, despite being dragged by a vehicle months earlier. You also have to ask why Renee Good decided to leave her wife behind who tried to get in the locked passenger door. Another agent was grabbing the driver door and reaching his hand inside. What was Mr. Ross doing with his free hand? He was holding his phone in the other hand to video the encounter for some reason, even though they're supposed to have body cams. There's no way a judge or jury looks at this and thinks the agents involved followed proper training.
      - alex43578 10mo ago
        [flagged]
        goatlover 10mo ago
        Well that's not what I've seen said by law enforcement officers analyzing the video footage, but then again I avoid watching news media that serves the interests of the current administration. It's upsetting so many people repeat propaganda.
        alex43578 10mo ago
        [flagged]
- mikkupikku 10mo ago
  Its obvious that she was resisting arrest and trying to flee. But as for the ICE agent being in front of the car... barely. I don't believe he genuinely feared for his life, he could have simply stepped out of the way. I think he saw the woman fleeing, figured he was close enough to being in harms way to justify himself, and shot the woman because he was mad at her. I've been in situations like that in Walmart parking lots, where a car jolts forward and I have to jump out of the way, and maybe I say "That crazy bitch just tried to kill me" but while saying that I understand it to be a hyperbolic albeit justified anger at reckless driving, and that nobody was actually trying to kill me, and shooting the driver in the face instead of diving out of the way would be a suboptimal survival strategy even if homicidal intent was there.
  - goatlover 10mo ago
    I don't understand what jurisdiction ICE has to enforce traffic laws. We see other vehicles drive around her vehicle, so at most it was a minor inconvenience for ICE. Call the local LE on her if you don't like how she's parked in the road and they can issue a ticket.
    - mikkupikku 10mo ago
      Federal agents can arrest people for obstructing them, if you block the road they aren't obliged to defer to local cops and laws, because fucking with federal agents like that violates federal laws. Regardless, none of it justifies a murder.
      - goatlover 10mo ago
        The road wasn't blocked since we see other vehicles drive around her, which ICE could have done instead of escalating the situation as we see them doing in dozens of videos coming out of the Minneapolis area. Keep in mind that the administration is not acting in good faith. Trump has politicized ICE to go after blue cities he doesn't like. Stephen Miller started the escalations when he sent ICE to Home Depot parking lots in LA because his desired quoata wasn't being met.

alex43578 10mo ago

[flagged]

Sohcahtoa82 10mo ago
It's absolutely wild to me that two people can watch the same video and come up with completely different conclusions as to what happened. > She sees he is there, puts it in drive, and pulls forward. The fact that her steering was cranked to the right is proof enough that she was not intending on hitting him.
- alex43578 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - leptons 10mo ago
    He pulled his gun out before she moved the car anywhere. He was already intending to shoot her.
    - alex43578 10mo ago
      You do know that’s a lie easily refuted by all the video evidence, right?
      - Sohcahtoa82 10mo ago
        Not at all. I watched the video from Ross's phone. At first, from that angle, it actually looks like he's lunging in front of Good's car, but then I remembered the other angle. He moved his phone from his right hand to his left hand so he could grab his gun. But the car is still traveling in reverse as this happens. And when Good starts moving, the wheel is cranked to the right -- away from Ross. I notice something important: Ross did not back away when the car starting moving. He stood his ground. If Good was intending to run over him, all she would have needed to do was center the wheel, maybe even keep it slightly to the left. But no, she was cranked to the right, away from him. Ross didn't move at all, and didn't get run over. From what I can see, Good hit reverse to execute a 2-point turn to leave, and Ross responded by moving his phone to his left hand so he could unholster his gun with his right. But the fact is, Ross failed to properly act according to training. If you do believe someone is trying to run over you, the proper response is to get the hell out of the way, not stand your ground and shoot the driver. Cars aren't exactly known for stopping just because the driver is dead.
        alex43578 10mo ago
        >He pulled his gun out before she moved the car anywhere So this is a lie, by your own admission. Her car is already moving before he reaches for his gun. -- The tactic of relocating is not a legal requirement. Failing to retreat doesn't prevent him from defending himself. While Minnesota absurdly has "duty to retreat" laws, since he is operating as federal law enforcement he is only required to have "reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death... to the officer", and he can reasonably believe that she is trying to run him over, given she puts it in gear and pulls forward towards him, from a stop, as he's right at her bumper.
        Sohcahtoa82 10mo ago
        I think this is a strong case of a story having her side, his side, and the truth. I think the reasonable position to take is that she was not intending to run him over, but he believed (reasonably) that she was, and so shot. In this case, it'd be wrong to accuse Ross of murder, but it'd also be wrong to label Good as a domestic terrorist as Trump and his administration have been doing.
        alex43578 10mo ago
        Sure, I’m fine with that. The administration, as usual, is making exaggerated and bombastic claims to support a base position that’s actually pretty reasonable (driving towards law enforcement to flee an interaction is dangerous for the driver and LEOs).
      - leptons 10mo ago
        She was actually backing up away from the officer that shot her while he was reaching for his gun. So she was moving away from him, and he goes for his gun. The videos clearly shows this.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - goatlover 10mo ago
    Law enforcement is trained not to shoot at a moving vehicle because you risk public safety if the driver is incapacitated. Also LE is trained not to put themselves in front or back of the vehicle, since you can get run over that way. Agent Jonathan Ross did not follow his training, despite being dragged by a vehicle months earlier. You also have to ask why Renee Good decided to leave her wife behind who tried to get in the locked passenger door. Another agent was grabbing the driver door and reaching his hand inside. What was Mr. Ross doing with his free hand? He was holding his phone in the other hand to video the encounter for some reason, even though they're supposed to have body cams. There's no way a judge or jury looks at this and thinks the agents involved followed proper training.
    - alex43578 10mo ago
      [flagged]
      - goatlover 10mo ago
        Well that's not what I've seen said by law enforcement officers analyzing the video footage, but then again I avoid watching news media that serves the interests of the current administration. It's upsetting so many people repeat propaganda.
        alex43578 10mo ago
        [flagged]
mikkupikku 10mo ago
Its obvious that she was resisting arrest and trying to flee. But as for the ICE agent being in front of the car... barely. I don't believe he genuinely feared for his life, he could have simply stepped out of the way. I think he saw the woman fleeing, figured he was close enough to being in harms way to justify himself, and shot the woman because he was mad at her. I've been in situations like that in Walmart parking lots, where a car jolts forward and I have to jump out of the way, and maybe I say "That crazy bitch just tried to kill me" but while saying that I understand it to be a hyperbolic albeit justified anger at reckless driving, and that nobody was actually trying to kill me, and shooting the driver in the face instead of diving out of the way would be a suboptimal survival strategy even if homicidal intent was there.
- goatlover 10mo ago
  I don't understand what jurisdiction ICE has to enforce traffic laws. We see other vehicles drive around her vehicle, so at most it was a minor inconvenience for ICE. Call the local LE on her if you don't like how she's parked in the road and they can issue a ticket.
  - mikkupikku 10mo ago
    Federal agents can arrest people for obstructing them, if you block the road they aren't obliged to defer to local cops and laws, because fucking with federal agents like that violates federal laws. Regardless, none of it justifies a murder.
    - goatlover 10mo ago
      The road wasn't blocked since we see other vehicles drive around her, which ICE could have done instead of escalating the situation as we see them doing in dozens of videos coming out of the Minneapolis area. Keep in mind that the administration is not acting in good faith. Trump has politicized ICE to go after blue cities he doesn't like. Stephen Miller started the escalations when he sent ICE to Home Depot parking lots in LA because his desired quoata wasn't being met.