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I don't know much about the Linux Foundation if I'm being honest, even though I've been a 24/7 Linux user for decades, but they seemingly don't have the same im

I don't know much about the Linux Foundation if I'm being honest, even though I've been a 24/7 Linux user for decades, but they seemingly don't have the same image in the ecosystem, at least not close to how people see Mozilla today. Why is that? Is there lessons to be learned from the Linux Foundation how to actually effectively and responsibly manage that sort of money, in those types of projects?

mixmastamyk 10mo ago
A foundation should invest in its technology first and resist the strong temptation to fund pet projects (of leadership) with donated money.
- nedbat 10mo ago
  I'm not sure what you are labeling as pet projects of leadership? Is there something the PSF is doing that you consider a pet project rather than part of their core mission?
  - mixmastamyk 10mo ago
    Yes, outreach before investing in packaging. It’s not that outreach is bad but that packaging was crumbling.
    - nedbat 10mo ago
      I'm not sure how you got to "before" here. The PSF runs PyPI, organizes the Python Packaging Authority, supports sprints and standardization efforts, funds developers in residence and so on. Packaging is improving, partly because of those efforts. It's not an either/or.
      - mixmastamyk 10mo ago
        https://devclass.com/2025/03/10/pypi-repository-takes-steps-towards-paid-services-as-volunteers-struggle-to-meet-demand/ https://devclass.com/2025/03/10/pypi-repository-takes-steps-... > CPython core developer Paul Moore described his involvement in the > packaging community and said: “it’s struggling under the weight of its own > popularity … the individuals involved are doing their best under what are > frankly near-impossible conditions.” > Moore questioned whether the fact that so many businesses now depend on > Python and PyPI meant that “maybe a purely volunteer basis simply can’t > work any more,” though he hoped this is not the case.
        nedbat 10mo ago
        Yes, it could use more funding. Glad to see that Anthropic is helping. It's still not an either/or situation. The PSF would not be fulfilling their mission if they only funded packaging until packaging was "solved" (whatever that might mean) and only then did they fund outreach.
        mixmastamyk 10mo ago
        I didn't say either/or, and was talking about priorities. One shouldn't install a fancy roof when the foundation is crumbling. > The PSF would not be fulfilling their mission if they only funded packaging until packaging was "solved" (whatever that might mean) and only then did they fund outreach. They did the opposite. So they still didn't fulfill it, to the extent that Mozilla, ChanZuck, and astral felt compelled to step in.
upboundspiral 10mo ago
The Linux foundation is not a nonprofit. It is registered as a 501c6, basically a business consortium, unlike the Python software foundation which is a nonprofit (501c3). The Linux foundation also stewards way more foundations and projects that just "Linux". They are, among other things, in the business of creating foundations and making money that way. For every organization under the Linux foundation, say the CNCF, to be a part of those subprojects, you need to pay a Linux foundation tax. The Python Software foundation I don't know much about but their scope seems to be only stewarding python. They seem to have far less corporate outreach then the Linux foundation. Linux Foundation 990 - note page 16-17 with the salaries - there are for profit entity salaries, not nonprofit salaries. https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/460503801_201812_990O_2020011517035818.pdf https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/460503801_201812_990O...

mixmastamyk 10mo ago

A foundation should invest in its technology first and resist the strong temptation to fund pet projects (of leadership) with donated money.

nedbat 10mo ago
I'm not sure what you are labeling as pet projects of leadership? Is there something the PSF is doing that you consider a pet project rather than part of their core mission?
- mixmastamyk 10mo ago
  Yes, outreach before investing in packaging. It’s not that outreach is bad but that packaging was crumbling.
  - nedbat 10mo ago
    I'm not sure how you got to "before" here. The PSF runs PyPI, organizes the Python Packaging Authority, supports sprints and standardization efforts, funds developers in residence and so on. Packaging is improving, partly because of those efforts. It's not an either/or.
    - mixmastamyk 10mo ago
      https://devclass.com/2025/03/10/pypi-repository-takes-steps-towards-paid-services-as-volunteers-struggle-to-meet-demand/ https://devclass.com/2025/03/10/pypi-repository-takes-steps-... > CPython core developer Paul Moore described his involvement in the > packaging community and said: “it’s struggling under the weight of its own > popularity … the individuals involved are doing their best under what are > frankly near-impossible conditions.” > Moore questioned whether the fact that so many businesses now depend on > Python and PyPI meant that “maybe a purely volunteer basis simply can’t > work any more,” though he hoped this is not the case.
      - nedbat 10mo ago
        Yes, it could use more funding. Glad to see that Anthropic is helping. It's still not an either/or situation. The PSF would not be fulfilling their mission if they only funded packaging until packaging was "solved" (whatever that might mean) and only then did they fund outreach.
        mixmastamyk 10mo ago
        I didn't say either/or, and was talking about priorities. One shouldn't install a fancy roof when the foundation is crumbling. > The PSF would not be fulfilling their mission if they only funded packaging until packaging was "solved" (whatever that might mean) and only then did they fund outreach. They did the opposite. So they still didn't fulfill it, to the extent that Mozilla, ChanZuck, and astral felt compelled to step in.

upboundspiral 10mo ago

The Linux foundation is not a nonprofit. It is registered as a 501c6, basically a business consortium, unlike the Python software foundation which is a nonprofit (501c3). The Linux foundation also stewards way more foundations and projects that just "Linux". They are, among other things, in the business of creating foundations and making money that way. For every organization under the Linux foundation, say the CNCF, to be a part of those subprojects, you need to pay a Linux foundation tax. The Python Software foundation I don't know much about but their scope seems to be only stewarding python. They seem to have far less corporate outreach then the Linux foundation. Linux Foundation 990 - note page 16-17 with the salaries - there are for profit entity salaries, not nonprofit salaries. https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/460503801_201812_990O_2020011517035818.pdf https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/460503801_201812_990O...