4 ms·

You're comparing the cost of a battery with a full system. That 16 kWh battery requires a ~$3000 inverter to go along with it.

scarecrowbob 9mo ago
Well, the math still maths, right? I am writing this off grid, using about 15kwh of batteries and a $1200 (6kw) inverter. My entire system puls panels and racking those panels, plus wiring some un-powered shacks was about $10k, though I did the work myself (which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it.
- thechao 9mo ago
  > which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it. Yo. If you can find an electrician to stop by my house and turn a light switch off for less than 1000$, please inform me. I got a quote for 25k$ to install a system that size, and that price. City code has me by the balls: I can't modify my main panel without inspection, the inspector won't show up without a licensed electrician, and electrician wants the labor. I pointed out that we're talking 8 hours of labor — call it 2500$, lawyer money — and he was like "what's your choice". I'm in Texas.
  - ozim 9mo ago
    For 2500$ maybe you can pass the exam to become licensed yourself. Like do it over the weekends.
    - lostapathy 9mo ago
      This right here - I have been investigating getting my own contractor license for DIY work on a property I own that must be permitted but city will only issue permits to licensed contractors. Took a practice test for the exam on a whim and nearly passed it without studying. Anybody seriously considering DIY'ing the install of something like this probably could get a license without a lot of work.
    - adrianmonk 9mo ago
      To get a journeyman electrician license in Texas, you need to have 8000 hours of documented on-the-job experience working under a licensed electrician[1]. So you'd need to find an electrician who will let for you work them on the weekends, and if you work 8 hours every Saturday and every Sunday, then it will take you 500 weekends. A residential wireman license only requires 4000 hours[2], but I'm not sure if that kind of license would be good enough for the inspection. --- [1] https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/journeyman-electrician.htm https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/jo... [2] https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/wireman.htm https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/wi...
    - chasd00 9mo ago
      "licensed electrician" is also timewalled behind a lengthy apprenticeship. From google's llm "..requiring 8,000 hours of on-the-job training (OJT) under a Master Electrician .." so even if you could pass the test you still don't get to become licensed until you've paid your dues in terms of time.
      - ozim 9mo ago
        Isn't there an exclusion or lower entry requirement if you have a technical education like engineering degree? Like if not electrical engineering because I guess that would be obvious there should be lower entry bar - but for all others at least somewhat related... I guess if you want to dabble with installing battery packs with inverters, that's not your typical bachelor of arts who is trying to do so.
        scarecrowbob 9mo ago
        I mean, my MA is in Rhetoric... but hey. Where I am at (rural CO), as long as it can be inspected and meets code, the county is fine- you don't need a blessing. Septic is different (that's a $175 certificate, though). But for electrical all you have to do is meet codes, which isn't really super hard.
  - lotsofpulp 9mo ago
    Run for political office espousing Texas' famous "freedom" that does not allow you to modify your own home.
    - thechao 9mo ago
      "Freedom for me, rules for thee". Texas has always been a cesspit of political kickback. I mean ... not Illinois or New Jersey, but annoying enough.
    - ozim 9mo ago
      From what I quickly checked you can modify your own home there is an exclusion for doing electrical work on your property - seems like main panel would be somehow excluded from what qualifies as "yours".
      - tzs 9mo ago
        That exemption is from the state code and applies to "work not specifically regulated by a municipal ordinance that is performed in or on a dwelling by a person who owns and resides in the dwelling". They said it was city code causing their problem.
  - fullstop 9mo ago
    2019 prices, but it was $487 to move a receptacle from under a window to the left of the window prior to making that window opening a french door. In 2025 it was $1,100 to have an EVSE put in, including permit fees. I'm in Pennsylvania. Working with my township to get a permit / inspection was horrible -- they dragged their feet for months! I have to believe that I am one of a few people in my township who have done this the "right way".
    - IAmBroom 9mo ago
      Weird. I'm in PA, and my electrician quoted me a flat fee of $100 for replacing my outlets with GFCIs (each).
      - fullstop 9mo ago
        This wasn't replacing outlets, I do those myself. This was moving a receptacle four feet to the left and doing it through a finished basement.
        stickfigure 9mo ago
        Including drywall work? How many hours was the whole job?
        fullstop 9mo ago
        Ha, they actually messed up a bit and I had to repair a bit of the wall / wainscoting. Because of this they knocked $100 off of the price that I listed earlier. It took him maybe two hours to run the wire.
  - scarecrowbob 9mo ago
    Hoss I am sorry to hear that- I have literally no idea what electrical costs, as I've been doing it myself. If you're living close enough to other humans that the can observe and complain, then we're not really in the same situation. But that doesn't really change my point, does it? Like, if they are installing $6k worth of equipment and materials, then that's what the up-thread points was about paying 10K more for tesla-branded equipment, right? I get that at a certain point the labor makes the cost of materials less of a deal, but my point was that my battery+inverter+panels+material is still less than the equipment they are describing.
mbesto 9mo ago
That's fair. Better comparison: Author's config: 3x Powerwalls + inverters = 40 kWh 4.2 kW array £39,360 = $53k USD Alternative: EG4 18kPV Hybrid Inverter = $5000 3x RIUXU = $9600 10x Trina Solar 435w panels = $1580 Cabling, installations, etc. = $5000 Total = $21k It's not even close...
- pchew 9mo ago
  This is still not an accurate comparison. I'm not a Tesla fanboy but of all of the major players in the non-diy game (Enphase, Franklin, Tesla, Sol-Ark) they provide the best value for money, and are impressive pieces of equipment. The EG4 18k has 11.5 kw backfeed capability, with a rather pathetic 65ish amp in-rush. Obviously 18kw usable solar capacity(they technically let you land up to 21kw, but only 18 is usable). The Powerwall system you outlined can take 60kw of usable solar input, has 34kw standing backfeed capability, and a whopping 555 amp in-rush (not a typo, it's 185 amps per unit). Not to get in to warranties, etc.
  - mbesto 9mo ago
    None of those things matter when your solar array is 4.5 kW and you have a standard 150A/200A grid in.... Like I said, they basically are not sold to scale like a normal household uses electricity. EDIT: What the heck is in-rush and backfeed? Are you talking about AC input to charge the batteries? The 18k is 50A @ 240VAC (12kW) fyi. Also, why does the charge rate even matter there? For the AC output its also 12 kW...the family is average 48 kWh days, which is 2 kW hourly average...
    - labcomputer 9mo ago
      Inrush is surge capacity. Starting a big motor like an air conditioner can require 2x or 3x the continuous running amps, but only for a few seconds.
    - pchew 9mo ago
      Inrush is exactly what it says it is, it's inrush current. When you have a sudden surge on something, that's inrush. Lots of appliances in your home have a large inrush, much larger than the breaker they're on. Inrush happens faster than a breaker trips, which doesn't matter when you're on the grid and the inrush is lower than your mainbreaker, it matters when you have an inverter in the way with a passthrough limit and an inrush limit. Typical central HVAC units have LRA over 100 amps. If we're talking about 'doesn't even matter with a 4kw array' well, hell, how the hell you gonna charge ~40kwh of battery with solar array that nominally produces 20kwh a day on its best day, assuming all conditions are perfect? Backfeed is what the inverter can push out from the battery to the home. It's the size of the tube coming from the gallons of water reservoir. EG4 18k has a tiny tube, no matter how much battery you put on it. Like emptying a 50 gallon drum with a drinking straw(and with the 4kw array, filling it with a 12 oz cup).

scarecrowbob 9mo ago

Well, the math still maths, right? I am writing this off grid, using about 15kwh of batteries and a $1200 (6kw) inverter. My entire system puls panels and racking those panels, plus wiring some un-powered shacks was about $10k, though I did the work myself (which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it.

thechao 9mo ago
> which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it. Yo. If you can find an electrician to stop by my house and turn a light switch off for less than 1000$, please inform me. I got a quote for 25k$ to install a system that size, and that price. City code has me by the balls: I can't modify my main panel without inspection, the inspector won't show up without a licensed electrician, and electrician wants the labor. I pointed out that we're talking 8 hours of labor — call it 2500$, lawyer money — and he was like "what's your choice". I'm in Texas.
- ozim 9mo ago
  For 2500$ maybe you can pass the exam to become licensed yourself. Like do it over the weekends.
  - lostapathy 9mo ago
    This right here - I have been investigating getting my own contractor license for DIY work on a property I own that must be permitted but city will only issue permits to licensed contractors. Took a practice test for the exam on a whim and nearly passed it without studying. Anybody seriously considering DIY'ing the install of something like this probably could get a license without a lot of work.
  - adrianmonk 9mo ago
    To get a journeyman electrician license in Texas, you need to have 8000 hours of documented on-the-job experience working under a licensed electrician[1]. So you'd need to find an electrician who will let for you work them on the weekends, and if you work 8 hours every Saturday and every Sunday, then it will take you 500 weekends. A residential wireman license only requires 4000 hours[2], but I'm not sure if that kind of license would be good enough for the inspection. --- [1] https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/journeyman-electrician.htm https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/jo... [2] https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/wireman.htm https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/electricians/apply/individuals/wi...
  - chasd00 9mo ago
    "licensed electrician" is also timewalled behind a lengthy apprenticeship. From google's llm "..requiring 8,000 hours of on-the-job training (OJT) under a Master Electrician .." so even if you could pass the test you still don't get to become licensed until you've paid your dues in terms of time.
    - ozim 9mo ago
      Isn't there an exclusion or lower entry requirement if you have a technical education like engineering degree? Like if not electrical engineering because I guess that would be obvious there should be lower entry bar - but for all others at least somewhat related... I guess if you want to dabble with installing battery packs with inverters, that's not your typical bachelor of arts who is trying to do so.
      - scarecrowbob 9mo ago
        I mean, my MA is in Rhetoric... but hey. Where I am at (rural CO), as long as it can be inspected and meets code, the county is fine- you don't need a blessing. Septic is different (that's a $175 certificate, though). But for electrical all you have to do is meet codes, which isn't really super hard.
- lotsofpulp 9mo ago
  Run for political office espousing Texas' famous "freedom" that does not allow you to modify your own home.
  - thechao 9mo ago
    "Freedom for me, rules for thee". Texas has always been a cesspit of political kickback. I mean ... not Illinois or New Jersey, but annoying enough.
  - ozim 9mo ago
    From what I quickly checked you can modify your own home there is an exclusion for doing electrical work on your property - seems like main panel would be somehow excluded from what qualifies as "yours".
    - tzs 9mo ago
      That exemption is from the state code and applies to "work not specifically regulated by a municipal ordinance that is performed in or on a dwelling by a person who owns and resides in the dwelling". They said it was city code causing their problem.
- fullstop 9mo ago
  2019 prices, but it was $487 to move a receptacle from under a window to the left of the window prior to making that window opening a french door. In 2025 it was $1,100 to have an EVSE put in, including permit fees. I'm in Pennsylvania. Working with my township to get a permit / inspection was horrible -- they dragged their feet for months! I have to believe that I am one of a few people in my township who have done this the "right way".
  - IAmBroom 9mo ago
    Weird. I'm in PA, and my electrician quoted me a flat fee of $100 for replacing my outlets with GFCIs (each).
    - fullstop 9mo ago
      This wasn't replacing outlets, I do those myself. This was moving a receptacle four feet to the left and doing it through a finished basement.
      - stickfigure 9mo ago
        Including drywall work? How many hours was the whole job?
        fullstop 9mo ago
        Ha, they actually messed up a bit and I had to repair a bit of the wall / wainscoting. Because of this they knocked $100 off of the price that I listed earlier. It took him maybe two hours to run the wire.
- scarecrowbob 9mo ago
  Hoss I am sorry to hear that- I have literally no idea what electrical costs, as I've been doing it myself. If you're living close enough to other humans that the can observe and complain, then we're not really in the same situation. But that doesn't really change my point, does it? Like, if they are installing $6k worth of equipment and materials, then that's what the up-thread points was about paying 10K more for tesla-branded equipment, right? I get that at a certain point the labor makes the cost of materials less of a deal, but my point was that my battery+inverter+panels+material is still less than the equipment they are describing.

mbesto 9mo ago

That's fair. Better comparison: Author's config: 3x Powerwalls + inverters = 40 kWh 4.2 kW array £39,360 = $53k USD Alternative: EG4 18kPV Hybrid Inverter = $5000 3x RIUXU = $9600 10x Trina Solar 435w panels = $1580 Cabling, installations, etc. = $5000 Total = $21k It's not even close...

pchew 9mo ago
This is still not an accurate comparison. I'm not a Tesla fanboy but of all of the major players in the non-diy game (Enphase, Franklin, Tesla, Sol-Ark) they provide the best value for money, and are impressive pieces of equipment. The EG4 18k has 11.5 kw backfeed capability, with a rather pathetic 65ish amp in-rush. Obviously 18kw usable solar capacity(they technically let you land up to 21kw, but only 18 is usable). The Powerwall system you outlined can take 60kw of usable solar input, has 34kw standing backfeed capability, and a whopping 555 amp in-rush (not a typo, it's 185 amps per unit). Not to get in to warranties, etc.
- mbesto 9mo ago
  None of those things matter when your solar array is 4.5 kW and you have a standard 150A/200A grid in.... Like I said, they basically are not sold to scale like a normal household uses electricity. EDIT: What the heck is in-rush and backfeed? Are you talking about AC input to charge the batteries? The 18k is 50A @ 240VAC (12kW) fyi. Also, why does the charge rate even matter there? For the AC output its also 12 kW...the family is average 48 kWh days, which is 2 kW hourly average...
  - labcomputer 9mo ago
    Inrush is surge capacity. Starting a big motor like an air conditioner can require 2x or 3x the continuous running amps, but only for a few seconds.
  - pchew 9mo ago
    Inrush is exactly what it says it is, it's inrush current. When you have a sudden surge on something, that's inrush. Lots of appliances in your home have a large inrush, much larger than the breaker they're on. Inrush happens faster than a breaker trips, which doesn't matter when you're on the grid and the inrush is lower than your mainbreaker, it matters when you have an inverter in the way with a passthrough limit and an inrush limit. Typical central HVAC units have LRA over 100 amps. If we're talking about 'doesn't even matter with a 4kw array' well, hell, how the hell you gonna charge ~40kwh of battery with solar array that nominally produces 20kwh a day on its best day, assuming all conditions are perfect? Backfeed is what the inverter can push out from the battery to the home. It's the size of the tube coming from the gallons of water reservoir. EG4 18k has a tiny tube, no matter how much battery you put on it. Like emptying a 50 gallon drum with a drinking straw(and with the 4kw array, filling it with a 12 oz cup).