4 ms·

Promoting racism, bigotry, and hate is not trolling and should not be treated as lightly as you imply.

by driverdan 9mo ago

observationist 9mo ago
Do the Thumper thing. If you can't find something nice to say, then don't say anything at all.
- megabless123 9mo ago
  No. Racism and bigotry must always be pro-actively confronted.
  - sergiotapia 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - observationist 9mo ago
      [flagged]
  - vincenzothgreat 9mo ago
    Can you give some examples of his racism?
    - mooglevich 9mo ago
      I think he literally said white people should stay away from black people. I forget which video it is and don't want to re-watch it anyways. I Googled the specific quote and it sounds about right with my memory (which admittedly could be faulty): "I would say, based on the current way things are going, the best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from Black people." "Just get the f— away. Wherever you have to go, just get away". I guess we could discuss whether this is straight up racist, but it sounds pretty bad to me.
      - DrPimienta 9mo ago
        Was there any particular reason why he said those things? Some event or something?
    - OrderlyTiamat 9mo ago
      TFA has a clear example.
- b40d-48b2-979e 9mo ago
  Silence is how fascism rises.
  - simpaticoder 9mo ago
    There's a difference between speaking out against injustice when there is real risk involved, and speaking against a person because you don't like their views. Silence is appropriate in the latter case; or even better, express your own positive (in the logical sense) positions. Bloodless, priggish condemnation of individuals with fascist views makes fascism rise even faster than silence.
    - Arainach 9mo ago
      Anyone who claims they turned to fascism because they're angry people insulted fascists is not arguing in good faith. Silence allows the messages of hatred to spread more loudly and more rapidly; if you leave fascists along they become emboldened and push the lines even further. We've seen this over and over, both historically and in America today.
      - simpaticoder 9mo ago
        >Anyone who claims they turned to fascism because they're angry people insulted fascists is not arguing in good faith. I tend to agree, but I didn't make that argument. As an aside, bad faith is orthogonal to the argument, hence the existence of debate clubs. IOW, you could argue in bad faith for or against democracy, for or against fascism, etc. >Silence allows the messages of hatred to spread more loudly and more rapidly This depends. Any position can be weakened by what I call "badvocates", people are either personally despicable or who argue in ignorance, bad faith, or the ever-popular tactic (based on ad hominem) which simply asserts you are bad for believing a certain way. Sadly the impact of badvocacy is asymmetrical with fascism v liberalism, because the fascists intentionally embrace ignorance, non-sequitors, hypocrisy, personal attacks, whataboutism, and so on. The badvocacy on the liberal side is particularly painful for me to see because its so avoidable. It's that strident tone, that indignant huff of impatience, its the moral certainty, the extremely judgemental social enforcement of rules where the only penalty is ostracism. In its own way it becomes a kind of fascism. So, yes, speak the truth, call out others for speaking un-truth ("lying", sadly, is too narrow). But ultimately try to retain that common ground, the empathy that liberalism is famous for. This doesn't mean you can't be firm, or even use violence eventually. If it comes to that it means the violence comes regretfully, without hatred, hopeful that another course of action will arise. Fascism is pretty close to the "default" state of humans, which is why I think of it more as a regrettable regression than a moral failing, akin to having millions of adults pooping their pants.
SilasX 9mo ago
Not that your exactly guilty, but that comes close to the cringeworthy attitude of "haha, what a great troll! Those poor fools can't tell when he's being serious, so brilliant! Wait, wait, you touched my sacred cow? Well, now you're obviously toxic and I've discovered empathy."
vincenzothgreat 9mo ago
What did he say that was racist?
- dangus 9mo ago
  “The best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from black people” -Scott Adams It’s even worse in context.
  - OCASMv2 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - dangus 9mo ago
      It’s not even logical advice if you believe him that there really is a climate of hatred against white people. The logical advice to respond to that climate would be to act with dignity and treat other people like you’d like to be treated. To reach out and integrate, and build community. Doing that eventually solves the problem, even if it takes time and energy. “Staying away” just ensures perpetual hate and division. It’s stupid advice. America literally tried that already and it didn’t work. And this is all before we unpack the factual validity of these claims, and the underlying causes of that climate if those claims are really true. I’m amazed at how many people are jumping to this guy’s defense. He doesn’t need his reputation defended, he dug his own hole.
      - OCASMv2 9mo ago
        > The logical advice to respond to that climate would be to act with dignity and treat other people like you’d like to be treated. To reach out and integrate, and build community. Doing that eventually solves the problem, even if it takes time and energy. If you treated people with respect and dignity for your entire life and the result you get is increased hatred against you then disengaging is in fact a perfectly valid course of action.
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]

Promoting racism, bigotry, and hate is not trolling and should not be treated as lightly as you imply.

observationist 9mo ago

Do the Thumper thing. If you can't find something nice to say, then don't say anything at all.

megabless123 9mo ago
No. Racism and bigotry must always be pro-actively confronted.
- sergiotapia 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - observationist 9mo ago
    [flagged]
- vincenzothgreat 9mo ago
  Can you give some examples of his racism?
  - mooglevich 9mo ago
    I think he literally said white people should stay away from black people. I forget which video it is and don't want to re-watch it anyways. I Googled the specific quote and it sounds about right with my memory (which admittedly could be faulty): "I would say, based on the current way things are going, the best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from Black people." "Just get the f— away. Wherever you have to go, just get away". I guess we could discuss whether this is straight up racist, but it sounds pretty bad to me.
    - DrPimienta 9mo ago
      Was there any particular reason why he said those things? Some event or something?
  - OrderlyTiamat 9mo ago
    TFA has a clear example.
b40d-48b2-979e 9mo ago
Silence is how fascism rises.
- simpaticoder 9mo ago
  There's a difference between speaking out against injustice when there is real risk involved, and speaking against a person because you don't like their views. Silence is appropriate in the latter case; or even better, express your own positive (in the logical sense) positions. Bloodless, priggish condemnation of individuals with fascist views makes fascism rise even faster than silence.
  - Arainach 9mo ago
    Anyone who claims they turned to fascism because they're angry people insulted fascists is not arguing in good faith. Silence allows the messages of hatred to spread more loudly and more rapidly; if you leave fascists along they become emboldened and push the lines even further. We've seen this over and over, both historically and in America today.
    - simpaticoder 9mo ago
      >Anyone who claims they turned to fascism because they're angry people insulted fascists is not arguing in good faith. I tend to agree, but I didn't make that argument. As an aside, bad faith is orthogonal to the argument, hence the existence of debate clubs. IOW, you could argue in bad faith for or against democracy, for or against fascism, etc. >Silence allows the messages of hatred to spread more loudly and more rapidly This depends. Any position can be weakened by what I call "badvocates", people are either personally despicable or who argue in ignorance, bad faith, or the ever-popular tactic (based on ad hominem) which simply asserts you are bad for believing a certain way. Sadly the impact of badvocacy is asymmetrical with fascism v liberalism, because the fascists intentionally embrace ignorance, non-sequitors, hypocrisy, personal attacks, whataboutism, and so on. The badvocacy on the liberal side is particularly painful for me to see because its so avoidable. It's that strident tone, that indignant huff of impatience, its the moral certainty, the extremely judgemental social enforcement of rules where the only penalty is ostracism. In its own way it becomes a kind of fascism. So, yes, speak the truth, call out others for speaking un-truth ("lying", sadly, is too narrow). But ultimately try to retain that common ground, the empathy that liberalism is famous for. This doesn't mean you can't be firm, or even use violence eventually. If it comes to that it means the violence comes regretfully, without hatred, hopeful that another course of action will arise. Fascism is pretty close to the "default" state of humans, which is why I think of it more as a regrettable regression than a moral failing, akin to having millions of adults pooping their pants.

SilasX 9mo ago

Not that your exactly guilty, but that comes close to the cringeworthy attitude of "haha, what a great troll! Those poor fools can't tell when he's being serious, so brilliant! Wait, wait, you touched my sacred cow? Well, now you're obviously toxic and I've discovered empathy."

vincenzothgreat 9mo ago

What did he say that was racist?

dangus 9mo ago
“The best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from black people” -Scott Adams It’s even worse in context.
- OCASMv2 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - dangus 9mo ago
    It’s not even logical advice if you believe him that there really is a climate of hatred against white people. The logical advice to respond to that climate would be to act with dignity and treat other people like you’d like to be treated. To reach out and integrate, and build community. Doing that eventually solves the problem, even if it takes time and energy. “Staying away” just ensures perpetual hate and division. It’s stupid advice. America literally tried that already and it didn’t work. And this is all before we unpack the factual validity of these claims, and the underlying causes of that climate if those claims are really true. I’m amazed at how many people are jumping to this guy’s defense. He doesn’t need his reputation defended, he dug his own hole.
    - OCASMv2 9mo ago
      > The logical advice to respond to that climate would be to act with dignity and treat other people like you’d like to be treated. To reach out and integrate, and build community. Doing that eventually solves the problem, even if it takes time and energy. If you treated people with respect and dignity for your entire life and the result you get is increased hatred against you then disengaging is in fact a perfectly valid course of action.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]