6 ms·

Trump will be gone in 3 years. Maybe fewer depending on his health. It's unlikely that this change will have any meaningful effect on US democracy. On the othe

Trump will be gone in 3 years. Maybe fewer depending on his health. It's unlikely that this change will have any meaningful effect on US democracy. On the other hand, little drones are effectively munitions now. That means drone manufacturing capacity is effectively munitions manufacturing capacity. We're giving potential adversaries economies of scale building things that may be used to kill us. I'm generally a pretty free market guy but the war in Ukraine has changed some things. My main complaint with this law is that it is so US focused; I'd be fine with drones built in Europe or Japan or other allied nations.

jayd16 10mo ago
That logic also means they shouldn't be banned under 2nd amendment protections, no?
- aardvarkr 10mo ago
  No, you can think of them more like unarmed artillery shells. Can you walk down the street to buy some artillery munitions? Even if they were considered arms for the purpose of 2a this isn’t a ban on drones but a specific manufacturer. They government can definitely refuse to grant a manufacturer license to sell on this country.
  - toast0 10mo ago
    Pretty sure you can find inert artillery shells for sale if you cjeck your thrift and military surplus store.
  - 542354234235 10mo ago
    After Mcviegh, shouldn’t all U-Haul’s be seen as unarmed vehicular large IEDs? A drone isn’t like an artillery shell because an artillery shell is for putting in an artillery gun. A drone is for flying. Just because something can be modified to serve as some sort of weapon, does make it basically a weapon.
    - mothballed 10mo ago
      It was quite common in the wake of McVeigh and other large vehicle attacks that they should be seen as weapons and licensing strengthened. The fact you can drive a 26,000 lb GVWR truck without any special license is something special we have in America compared to most of say, Europe. It's actually pretty mind blowing anyone can just rent 26 ft diesel 26,000 lb truck and get in and drive it on the highway. It is testament to the fact there are a few vestiges of freedom left in America. Not much, but a few vestiges, since such trucks were around before the regulation hysteria of the late 20th century and 21st century.
  - skeeter2020 10mo ago
    >> Can you walk down the street to buy some artillery munitions? No I need to go to a flea market for that. It's not a specific manufacturer; it will impact US-made drones too, and based on how it's being rolled out is intended to shut down decent quality, inexpensive and easily-acquired drown sales - exactly what say, a journalist might want.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Ancapistani 10mo ago
    > Can you walk down the street to buy some artillery munitions? No, but you can walk down the street and buy all the components. To buy the shells, there’s a $200 tax (each!) and a form you have to fill out.
    - mothballed 10mo ago
      Not really, not for the air warfare context of drones. SAM can't be bought for any tax and they come with lifetime in jail if you have them, even just for peaceful purposes.[] Giving up air military supremacy isn't something the USA is going to yield to its citizens. The tax is reflective of the fact that machineguns and destructive devices can't be banned as they are "arms" that can merely be taxed, but the US doesn't considered air warfare weapons generally to be bearable arms. As drones become a dominating form of air superiority I would expect they start to become more like SAMs -- not bearable arms but rather arms that merely having in your arms mean you go in a cage forever even if you have an NFA stamp affixed. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332g https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332g
- axus 10mo ago
  Certainly the spirit of the 2nd amendment is to guarantee a widely distributed technology that gives citizens a check on their government.
efnx 10mo ago
I don’t know if we should be so sure that he will be gone in three years. There is no incentive for him to relinquish control peacefully. We’ll have to give him a plea bargain, or a pardon of sorts, to incentivise him stepping down. Without one his back will be against a wall (or iron bars in this case), and he will gladly escalate to stay in power to avoid incarceration.
- tejohnso 10mo ago
  Since when does he need to worry about incarceration? He's already been found guilty on 34 felony counts and nothing happened.
  - efnx 10mo ago
    Without a plea bargain, he would have to worry about incarceration as soon as he stepped down, is my point.
- skeeter2020 10mo ago
  I'm far more concerned with the younger, smarter and just as evil minnions who are currently learning from the master how naked & deep the corruption can go without consequence. President Vance and VP Rubio may be less shocking but could be even worse for everyone.
  - Herring 10mo ago
    America likes its celebrities. Think more President Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson.
Herring 10mo ago
The US has been having significant (and increasing) issues with democracy for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/how-stop-minority-rule-doom-loop/618536/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/how-stop-m...
- someguydave 10mo ago
  The real threat to democracy was the intense lawfare that Trump was subjected to
leptons 10mo ago
>Trump will be gone in 3 years. Maybe fewer depending on his health. He incited an insurrection last time he had power, in a desperate attempt to stay in power. Congress impeached him for it, but spineless Republicans refused to convict him for it. Then when he got power again, he pardoned everyone who took part in the insurrection. He's talked about having a 3rd term, so if you think he's just going to go away at the end of this term, you are mistaken.
elzbardico 10mo ago
So, the war in Ukraine, provoked by the US financing the biggest army in Europe, after financing a coup, made you even more into the Neocon propaganda? Clearly a hopeless case.

jayd16 10mo ago

That logic also means they shouldn't be banned under 2nd amendment protections, no?

aardvarkr 10mo ago
No, you can think of them more like unarmed artillery shells. Can you walk down the street to buy some artillery munitions? Even if they were considered arms for the purpose of 2a this isn’t a ban on drones but a specific manufacturer. They government can definitely refuse to grant a manufacturer license to sell on this country.
- toast0 10mo ago
  Pretty sure you can find inert artillery shells for sale if you cjeck your thrift and military surplus store.
- 542354234235 10mo ago
  After Mcviegh, shouldn’t all U-Haul’s be seen as unarmed vehicular large IEDs? A drone isn’t like an artillery shell because an artillery shell is for putting in an artillery gun. A drone is for flying. Just because something can be modified to serve as some sort of weapon, does make it basically a weapon.
  - mothballed 10mo ago
    It was quite common in the wake of McVeigh and other large vehicle attacks that they should be seen as weapons and licensing strengthened. The fact you can drive a 26,000 lb GVWR truck without any special license is something special we have in America compared to most of say, Europe. It's actually pretty mind blowing anyone can just rent 26 ft diesel 26,000 lb truck and get in and drive it on the highway. It is testament to the fact there are a few vestiges of freedom left in America. Not much, but a few vestiges, since such trucks were around before the regulation hysteria of the late 20th century and 21st century.
- skeeter2020 10mo ago
  >> Can you walk down the street to buy some artillery munitions? No I need to go to a flea market for that. It's not a specific manufacturer; it will impact US-made drones too, and based on how it's being rolled out is intended to shut down decent quality, inexpensive and easily-acquired drown sales - exactly what say, a journalist might want.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- Ancapistani 10mo ago
  > Can you walk down the street to buy some artillery munitions? No, but you can walk down the street and buy all the components. To buy the shells, there’s a $200 tax (each!) and a form you have to fill out.
  - mothballed 10mo ago
    Not really, not for the air warfare context of drones. SAM can't be bought for any tax and they come with lifetime in jail if you have them, even just for peaceful purposes.[] Giving up air military supremacy isn't something the USA is going to yield to its citizens. The tax is reflective of the fact that machineguns and destructive devices can't be banned as they are "arms" that can merely be taxed, but the US doesn't considered air warfare weapons generally to be bearable arms. As drones become a dominating form of air superiority I would expect they start to become more like SAMs -- not bearable arms but rather arms that merely having in your arms mean you go in a cage forever even if you have an NFA stamp affixed. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332g https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332g
axus 10mo ago
Certainly the spirit of the 2nd amendment is to guarantee a widely distributed technology that gives citizens a check on their government.

efnx 10mo ago

I don’t know if we should be so sure that he will be gone in three years. There is no incentive for him to relinquish control peacefully. We’ll have to give him a plea bargain, or a pardon of sorts, to incentivise him stepping down. Without one his back will be against a wall (or iron bars in this case), and he will gladly escalate to stay in power to avoid incarceration.

tejohnso 10mo ago
Since when does he need to worry about incarceration? He's already been found guilty on 34 felony counts and nothing happened.
- efnx 10mo ago
  Without a plea bargain, he would have to worry about incarceration as soon as he stepped down, is my point.
skeeter2020 10mo ago
I'm far more concerned with the younger, smarter and just as evil minnions who are currently learning from the master how naked & deep the corruption can go without consequence. President Vance and VP Rubio may be less shocking but could be even worse for everyone.
- Herring 10mo ago
  America likes its celebrities. Think more President Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson.

Herring 10mo ago

The US has been having significant (and increasing) issues with democracy for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding_in_the_... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/how-stop-minority-rule-doom-loop/618536/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/how-stop-m...

someguydave 10mo ago
The real threat to democracy was the intense lawfare that Trump was subjected to

leptons 10mo ago

>Trump will be gone in 3 years. Maybe fewer depending on his health. He incited an insurrection last time he had power, in a desperate attempt to stay in power. Congress impeached him for it, but spineless Republicans refused to convict him for it. Then when he got power again, he pardoned everyone who took part in the insurrection. He's talked about having a 3rd term, so if you think he's just going to go away at the end of this term, you are mistaken.

elzbardico 10mo ago

So, the war in Ukraine, provoked by the US financing the biggest army in Europe, after financing a coup, made you even more into the Neocon propaganda? Clearly a hopeless case.