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I think tribalism is the simpler explanation. One of the worst offenders I saw was a guy on here who wrote one of the new generation shells written in go...went

I think tribalism is the simpler explanation. One of the worst offenders I saw was a guy on here who wrote one of the new generation shells written in go...went out of his way to say the US had the same behavior as the UK, arresting people holding a blank sign, except his evidence was the disproportionate shooting of black people by police. An entirely unrelated issue. The point was though he was flailing due to feeling defensive, and unable to take a step back and analyze the criticisms objectively. This is super common behavior in pretty much all countries, and I think it's a huge problem.

iamnothere 9mo ago
True, now that you mention it I’ve seen the same sort of thing from people who are definitely not bots. Although, you can’t discount the possibility that they do some government or law enforcement work as a consultant. The full throated defense of police state tactics is unreal. (For what it’s worth, there are plenty of Americans who show up in Palantir/Flock threads doing the same thing, and I have the same suspicions there.)
- JCattheATM 9mo ago
  For a current example look at the other guy replying to my comments, earnestly trying to equate 'free speech zones' in the US which have not been a thing in years, maybe more than a decade, with people in the UK being arrested for holding up blank signs. I can't imagine it's paid work because what would be the point? It's not like he is influencing anyone's opinions.
  - iamnothere 9mo ago
    Edit: I agree with you about many of these posts, and it’s quite frustrating. Perhaps I should go for a walk.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - tdeck 9mo ago
    > free speech zones' in the US which have not been a thing in years, maybe more than a decade This is from 2024 https://www.thefire.org/news/how-milwaukee-and-chicago-circumvented-free-speech-rnc-and-dnc https://www.thefire.org/news/how-milwaukee-and-chicago-circu...
    - JCattheATM 9mo ago
      OK. SO, one city decided to do that, around a convention where there was very likely reasonable security concerns. Not sure I agree with it, but it's hardly a national issue. Look at all the no kings and anti-ice protests nation wide not confined in any way as evidence.
  - joe463369 9mo ago
    Nobody has been arrested in the UK for holding a blank sign. Please stop saying it.
    - JCattheATM 9mo ago
      Fair enough. People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy' or 'not my king', and the person holding up a blank sign was intimidated by police. Slightly better, I guess.
      - joe463369 9mo ago
        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/abolish-the-monarchy-protesters-king-proclamation-b2165294.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/abolish-the-mona... > Police Scotland said the 22-year-old woman arrested outside St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh on Sunday had been arrested for “breach of the peace”. > The woman was holding a sign reading “f** imperialism, abolish monarchy”, but the sign is not understood to be the reason for her arrest
        JCattheATM 9mo ago
        Not sure what your point is here.
        joe463369 9mo ago
        You've backtracked from your 'blank sign' position. I'm pointing out that your "People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy'" might be on similarly shaky ground. If it's not clear, I'm also heavily implying that you should be questioning the veracity of whatever source you're getting this easily-debunked tripe from.
        JCattheATM 9mo ago
        > You've backtracked from your 'blank sign' position. I wouldn't say backtracked. I acknowledged a correction. The pont still stands, people are being arrested and/or intimidated by police for expressing a non-hatespeech, non-violent opinion. > I'm pointing out that your "People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy'" might be on similarly shaky ground. I gave a source elsewhere in this thread. > If it's not clear, I'm also heavily implying that you should be questioning the veracity of whatever source you're getting this easily-debunked tripe from. It's not tripe, and if you want to attempt to go ahead and debunk it. I was wrong about the arrest for the blank sign as admitted, I'm not wrong about people being arrested for holding up signs expressing non-hatespeech, non-violent opinions, for which sources are abundant.
  - Nursie 9mo ago
    > look at the other guy replying to my comments, And look at you - making incorrect assertions about both free speech zones (they are still used) and your central point about the arrest of a protestor who it turns out wasn't arrested. It's sad that you're not going to walk away from this discussion thinking "Huh, maybe I wasn't very well informed, it's pretty terrible in both countries so calling out the UK as significantly worse might actually be wrong" but instead believe you were attacked by unreasonable, tribal British people defending authoritiarianism. But that's arguing on the internet I guess. By the way, here's another example of the use free speech zones and the arrests of people for having their say - https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/12/protesters-keep-getting-arrested-at-broadview-by-state-police-despite-promise-to-protect-free-speech/ https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/12/protesters-keep-gett... "Since state officials created a “free speech zone,” local police continue to make arrests that have “no apparent purpose other than just intimidating people away from that line, and sending a message that they’re going to be controlling the area with force,” said civil rights attorney Joe DiCola." Suppression of protest is unfortunately a popular thing for governments in a lot of places right now. It's as bad (if not worse) in Australia, where I live, especially in New South Wales where they seem determined to find a pretext to ban any and all marches. And to make it absolutely clear - I do not support any of it nor am I defending the actions of the UK authorities. Also not a monarchist, that family of parasites needs to be stripped of all powers, lands and assets stolen from the British and other peoples, and I was disgusted by what the British authorities did to suppress dissent leading up to the coronation of King big-ears.
    - JCattheATM 9mo ago
      > making incorrect assertions about both free speech zones (they are still used) My assertion was that "they haven't been a thing", and they haven't. Your sentence implied they were a nationwide issue still, and they very simply haven't been. Again, the numerous nationwide protests easily demonstrate that point. > your central point about the arrest of a protestor who it turns out wasn't arrested. At least 64 people were for simply holding up signs saying "not my king". The guy holding up blank paper was intimidated by the cops, which sure, is better than being arrested, but not great. > It's sad that you're not going to walk away from this discussion thinking "Huh, maybe I wasn't very well informed, it's pretty terrible in both countries so calling out the UK as significantly worse might actually be wrong" What's sad is you're being the very example of someone being overly defensive about the UK's decline instead of just agreeing these are real issues. This isn't a competition, I think the US is going in a horrible direction as well, andnot once did I claim the UK was 'significantly worse' - that's a strawman birthed from your defensiveness. > but instead believe you were attacked by unreasonable, tribal British people defending authoritiarianism. I do think you are being tribal and unreasonable, yes. > But that's arguing on the internet I guess. Unfortunately, but it's honestly only a minority of people who act like that. Reasonable people wouldn't be this deep into the conversation and would just have agreed, yeah, the British government overreached against protestors and some other examples of overreach appear concerning if indicative of a trend. But, nah, let's just defend King and Country without stopping to actually analyze or self-reflect.
graemep 9mo ago
> his evidence was the disproportionate shooting of black people by police In the UK? The police shoot very few people of any colour! Two in 2025: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_police_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_police_in_... Is there even a bit enough sample to draw such conclusions (let alone that correlation does not imply causation)
- JCattheATM 9mo ago
  No, in the US. That's why it was silly. I was talking about protestors being arrested for holding up signs, he said the same thing happened in the US but his evidence was the disproportionate shooting of black people by police in the US, which while very bad is an entirely different issue.

iamnothere 9mo ago

True, now that you mention it I’ve seen the same sort of thing from people who are definitely not bots. Although, you can’t discount the possibility that they do some government or law enforcement work as a consultant. The full throated defense of police state tactics is unreal. (For what it’s worth, there are plenty of Americans who show up in Palantir/Flock threads doing the same thing, and I have the same suspicions there.)

JCattheATM 9mo ago
For a current example look at the other guy replying to my comments, earnestly trying to equate 'free speech zones' in the US which have not been a thing in years, maybe more than a decade, with people in the UK being arrested for holding up blank signs. I can't imagine it's paid work because what would be the point? It's not like he is influencing anyone's opinions.
- iamnothere 9mo ago
  Edit: I agree with you about many of these posts, and it’s quite frustrating. Perhaps I should go for a walk.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- tdeck 9mo ago
  > free speech zones' in the US which have not been a thing in years, maybe more than a decade This is from 2024 https://www.thefire.org/news/how-milwaukee-and-chicago-circumvented-free-speech-rnc-and-dnc https://www.thefire.org/news/how-milwaukee-and-chicago-circu...
  - JCattheATM 9mo ago
    OK. SO, one city decided to do that, around a convention where there was very likely reasonable security concerns. Not sure I agree with it, but it's hardly a national issue. Look at all the no kings and anti-ice protests nation wide not confined in any way as evidence.
- joe463369 9mo ago
  Nobody has been arrested in the UK for holding a blank sign. Please stop saying it.
  - JCattheATM 9mo ago
    Fair enough. People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy' or 'not my king', and the person holding up a blank sign was intimidated by police. Slightly better, I guess.
    - joe463369 9mo ago
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/abolish-the-monarchy-protesters-king-proclamation-b2165294.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/abolish-the-mona... > Police Scotland said the 22-year-old woman arrested outside St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh on Sunday had been arrested for “breach of the peace”. > The woman was holding a sign reading “f** imperialism, abolish monarchy”, but the sign is not understood to be the reason for her arrest
      - JCattheATM 9mo ago
        Not sure what your point is here.
        joe463369 9mo ago
        You've backtracked from your 'blank sign' position. I'm pointing out that your "People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy'" might be on similarly shaky ground. If it's not clear, I'm also heavily implying that you should be questioning the veracity of whatever source you're getting this easily-debunked tripe from.
        JCattheATM 9mo ago
        > You've backtracked from your 'blank sign' position. I wouldn't say backtracked. I acknowledged a correction. The pont still stands, people are being arrested and/or intimidated by police for expressing a non-hatespeech, non-violent opinion. > I'm pointing out that your "People were just arrested for holding up signs like 'abolish monarchy'" might be on similarly shaky ground. I gave a source elsewhere in this thread. > If it's not clear, I'm also heavily implying that you should be questioning the veracity of whatever source you're getting this easily-debunked tripe from. It's not tripe, and if you want to attempt to go ahead and debunk it. I was wrong about the arrest for the blank sign as admitted, I'm not wrong about people being arrested for holding up signs expressing non-hatespeech, non-violent opinions, for which sources are abundant.
- Nursie 9mo ago
  > look at the other guy replying to my comments, And look at you - making incorrect assertions about both free speech zones (they are still used) and your central point about the arrest of a protestor who it turns out wasn't arrested. It's sad that you're not going to walk away from this discussion thinking "Huh, maybe I wasn't very well informed, it's pretty terrible in both countries so calling out the UK as significantly worse might actually be wrong" but instead believe you were attacked by unreasonable, tribal British people defending authoritiarianism. But that's arguing on the internet I guess. By the way, here's another example of the use free speech zones and the arrests of people for having their say - https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/12/protesters-keep-getting-arrested-at-broadview-by-state-police-despite-promise-to-protect-free-speech/ https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/12/protesters-keep-gett... "Since state officials created a “free speech zone,” local police continue to make arrests that have “no apparent purpose other than just intimidating people away from that line, and sending a message that they’re going to be controlling the area with force,” said civil rights attorney Joe DiCola." Suppression of protest is unfortunately a popular thing for governments in a lot of places right now. It's as bad (if not worse) in Australia, where I live, especially in New South Wales where they seem determined to find a pretext to ban any and all marches. And to make it absolutely clear - I do not support any of it nor am I defending the actions of the UK authorities. Also not a monarchist, that family of parasites needs to be stripped of all powers, lands and assets stolen from the British and other peoples, and I was disgusted by what the British authorities did to suppress dissent leading up to the coronation of King big-ears.
  - JCattheATM 9mo ago
    > making incorrect assertions about both free speech zones (they are still used) My assertion was that "they haven't been a thing", and they haven't. Your sentence implied they were a nationwide issue still, and they very simply haven't been. Again, the numerous nationwide protests easily demonstrate that point. > your central point about the arrest of a protestor who it turns out wasn't arrested. At least 64 people were for simply holding up signs saying "not my king". The guy holding up blank paper was intimidated by the cops, which sure, is better than being arrested, but not great. > It's sad that you're not going to walk away from this discussion thinking "Huh, maybe I wasn't very well informed, it's pretty terrible in both countries so calling out the UK as significantly worse might actually be wrong" What's sad is you're being the very example of someone being overly defensive about the UK's decline instead of just agreeing these are real issues. This isn't a competition, I think the US is going in a horrible direction as well, andnot once did I claim the UK was 'significantly worse' - that's a strawman birthed from your defensiveness. > but instead believe you were attacked by unreasonable, tribal British people defending authoritiarianism. I do think you are being tribal and unreasonable, yes. > But that's arguing on the internet I guess. Unfortunately, but it's honestly only a minority of people who act like that. Reasonable people wouldn't be this deep into the conversation and would just have agreed, yeah, the British government overreached against protestors and some other examples of overreach appear concerning if indicative of a trend. But, nah, let's just defend King and Country without stopping to actually analyze or self-reflect.

graemep 9mo ago

> his evidence was the disproportionate shooting of black people by police In the UK? The police shoot very few people of any colour! Two in 2025: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_police_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_police_in_... Is there even a bit enough sample to draw such conclusions (let alone that correlation does not imply causation)

JCattheATM 9mo ago
No, in the US. That's why it was silly. I was talking about protestors being arrested for holding up signs, he said the same thing happened in the US but his evidence was the disproportionate shooting of black people by police in the US, which while very bad is an entirely different issue.