4 ms·

> So media control, regulation by enforcement, and institutional control becomes the focus of effort. You forgot gun control. That's the first thing they took

> So media control, regulation by enforcement, and institutional control becomes the focus of effort. You forgot gun control. That's the first thing they took away. Thereafter, freedom after freedom has been made optional by the government [1]. When government becomes overreaching, and you don't have the means to protect yourself and your rights, that's where it goes. [1] I said "government", but probably "regime" would be a more suitable term here.

dijksterhuis 9mo ago
i’m absolutely, concretely and overwhelmingly fine with the concept of gun control here as a uk citizen. i say this as someone who did target rifle shooting as a kid. so, i’ve been around weapons in a positive way. the controls are a good thing.
- baal80spam 9mo ago
  > i’m absolutely, concretely and overwhelmingly fine with the concept of gun control here as a uk citizen. That... speaks volumes of the citizens of the said country.
whynotmaybe 9mo ago
I still don't know what's so important about guns and how it's a metric for freedom.
- logicchains 9mo ago
  As Mao said, political power grows from the barrel of the gun. In the past decade freedom of speech and internet freedom has being dramatically curtailed in pretty much every western country where the citizen are unarmed.
  - Maken 9mo ago
    These guns didn't stop the CLOUD act.
- wormpilled 9mo ago
  Predators are less likely to attack someone who can defend themselves, it's quite simple.
  - chimprich 9mo ago
    The empirical evidence from the US does not bear that out. Compare murder rates between the US and any peer country with more gun control.
    - miroljub 9mo ago
      Most of the murders (homicides) in the USA are committed using illegal weapons. Banning legal weapons wouldn't reduce crime, it would just make it harder for victims to defend themselves. Besides, USA is not a good example. According to Wikipedia [1], high murder rate statistics in the USA are skewed due to the overrepresentation of one specific part of the population, which is not that common in comparable countries. If that population were to be removed from the statistics, the murder rate in the USA would drop significantly. > According to the FBI 2019 Uniform Crime Report, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3% in cases where the race was known. Including homicide offenders where the race was unknown, African-Americans accounted for 39.6% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 29.1%, "Other" 2.1%, and "Unknown" 29.3%[48] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...
      - chimprich 9mo ago
        > Most of the murders (homicides) in the USA are committed using illegal weapons Hardly relevant. If you control guns better, you get fewer illegal weapons as well. Most of the murders in Europe are committed by illegal weapons as well. > Banning legal weapons wouldn't reduce crime Of course it would - see the reduction in gun violence in countries where this has been implemented. > Besides, USA is not a good example. According to Wikipedia [1], high murder rate statistics in the USA are skewed due to the overrepresentation of one specific part of the population Oh. You're one of those. It's a peculiarly American thing to try first to look to race to try to understand something, when there are more salient correlations. Presumably since Black Americans are overrepresented as victims of gun violence, you'd like to see a significantly higher proportion carrying guns?
pjc50 9mo ago
The guns in the US don't seem to be helping people avoid getting shot by ICE. (to the extent that armed revolution worked in the UK, the IRA were helped only slightly by US-backed supplies of Armalite rifles, and much more by a large supply of Libyan high explosives. Guns are a much less effective political weapon than the car or truck or hotel bomb)
- logicchains 9mo ago
  >The guns in the US don't seem to be helping people avoid getting shot by ICE. The woman who was shot was a democrat without any guns, maybe if she'd had a gun she wouldn't have been shot.
  - tavavex 9mo ago
    > maybe if she'd had a gun she wouldn't have been shot And how do you imagine that, exactly? You think that cop was fine shooting her for driving away in panic, but would patiently wait for her to grab a gun? And what would you like a person in her situation to do with the gun? Shoot him? The fact is, pulling a weapon in front of a US cop is begging to be killed on the spot. A common point of advice is that if you're stopped in the US by police, you should never look like you're reaching for anything, because the worst-case penalty for that is death. It instantly escalates the situation to life-or-death for a group of people that is largely already itching to pull the trigger.
  - Zizizizz 9mo ago
    Maybe if he didn't have a gun she wouldn't have been shot.
    - miroljub 9mo ago
      You just gave one more argument for having guns. If he didn't have a gun, maybe he would be driven over by the car. Possibly a few more people too. In Europe, where guns are less prevalent, cars are the favorite weapon used by terrorists. Luckily, he had a gun, so he was able to save himself and who knows how many more people by shooting an attacker.

dijksterhuis 9mo ago

i’m absolutely, concretely and overwhelmingly fine with the concept of gun control here as a uk citizen. i say this as someone who did target rifle shooting as a kid. so, i’ve been around weapons in a positive way. the controls are a good thing.

baal80spam 9mo ago
> i’m absolutely, concretely and overwhelmingly fine with the concept of gun control here as a uk citizen. That... speaks volumes of the citizens of the said country.

whynotmaybe 9mo ago

I still don't know what's so important about guns and how it's a metric for freedom.

logicchains 9mo ago
As Mao said, political power grows from the barrel of the gun. In the past decade freedom of speech and internet freedom has being dramatically curtailed in pretty much every western country where the citizen are unarmed.
- Maken 9mo ago
  These guns didn't stop the CLOUD act.
wormpilled 9mo ago
Predators are less likely to attack someone who can defend themselves, it's quite simple.
- chimprich 9mo ago
  The empirical evidence from the US does not bear that out. Compare murder rates between the US and any peer country with more gun control.
  - miroljub 9mo ago
    Most of the murders (homicides) in the USA are committed using illegal weapons. Banning legal weapons wouldn't reduce crime, it would just make it harder for victims to defend themselves. Besides, USA is not a good example. According to Wikipedia [1], high murder rate statistics in the USA are skewed due to the overrepresentation of one specific part of the population, which is not that common in comparable countries. If that population were to be removed from the statistics, the murder rate in the USA would drop significantly. > According to the FBI 2019 Uniform Crime Report, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3% in cases where the race was known. Including homicide offenders where the race was unknown, African-Americans accounted for 39.6% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 29.1%, "Other" 2.1%, and "Unknown" 29.3%[48] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...
    - chimprich 9mo ago
      > Most of the murders (homicides) in the USA are committed using illegal weapons Hardly relevant. If you control guns better, you get fewer illegal weapons as well. Most of the murders in Europe are committed by illegal weapons as well. > Banning legal weapons wouldn't reduce crime Of course it would - see the reduction in gun violence in countries where this has been implemented. > Besides, USA is not a good example. According to Wikipedia [1], high murder rate statistics in the USA are skewed due to the overrepresentation of one specific part of the population Oh. You're one of those. It's a peculiarly American thing to try first to look to race to try to understand something, when there are more salient correlations. Presumably since Black Americans are overrepresented as victims of gun violence, you'd like to see a significantly higher proportion carrying guns?

pjc50 9mo ago

The guns in the US don't seem to be helping people avoid getting shot by ICE. (to the extent that armed revolution worked in the UK, the IRA were helped only slightly by US-backed supplies of Armalite rifles, and much more by a large supply of Libyan high explosives. Guns are a much less effective political weapon than the car or truck or hotel bomb)

logicchains 9mo ago
>The guns in the US don't seem to be helping people avoid getting shot by ICE. The woman who was shot was a democrat without any guns, maybe if she'd had a gun she wouldn't have been shot.
- tavavex 9mo ago
  > maybe if she'd had a gun she wouldn't have been shot And how do you imagine that, exactly? You think that cop was fine shooting her for driving away in panic, but would patiently wait for her to grab a gun? And what would you like a person in her situation to do with the gun? Shoot him? The fact is, pulling a weapon in front of a US cop is begging to be killed on the spot. A common point of advice is that if you're stopped in the US by police, you should never look like you're reaching for anything, because the worst-case penalty for that is death. It instantly escalates the situation to life-or-death for a group of people that is largely already itching to pull the trigger.
- Zizizizz 9mo ago
  Maybe if he didn't have a gun she wouldn't have been shot.
  - miroljub 9mo ago
    You just gave one more argument for having guns. If he didn't have a gun, maybe he would be driven over by the car. Possibly a few more people too. In Europe, where guns are less prevalent, cars are the favorite weapon used by terrorists. Luckily, he had a gun, so he was able to save himself and who knows how many more people by shooting an attacker.