3 ms·

How can you tell? What's the thing that made you say "this is bad for her", and why is it not the same for you?

by stavros 10mo ago

sigmonsays 10mo ago
their vision is still developing and staring at a screen is not good for eye development. it removes stimulation and interaction with the environment and replaces it with sedentary and no physical interactions. While the exact reasons are not common knowledge, knowing TV is bad for toddlers is.
- ncallaway 10mo ago
  > their vision is still developing and staring at a screen is not good for eye development. Is that true? The American Association of Pediatrics doesn't list that as a concern on their page "Health Effects Of Young Kids Being On Screens Too Long" (which is focused on children aged 2-11). Do you have a source I could review for that claim? https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/center-of-excellence-on-social-media-and-youth-mental-health/qa-portal/qa-portal-library/qa-portal-library-questions/health-effects-of-young-kids-being-on-screens-too-long/ https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente... --- (The AAP page about media recommendations for 0-2 also doesn't say anything about eye-development, but _does_ recommend entirely against screen-time for that age-group except for video conversations with people) https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/center-of-excellence-on-social-media-and-youth-mental-health/qa-portal/qa-portal-library/qa-portal-library-questions/screen-time-for-infants/ https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente...
- bethekidyouwant 10mo ago
  It’s bro-science all the way down. What if your environment is a boring room?
- lurking_swe 10mo ago
  to clarify, too much “near work” for the eyes is a risk for myopia. That includes reading books all day. My point is, watching an educational tv program like PBS for 30 minutes in the evening will not be the cause for your child wearing glasses. The biggest predictor of good vision from the scientific studies is lots of outdoor time. This is most important from ages 6 to 11. https://www.myopiaprofile.com/articles/how-outdoor-time-influences-myopia-prevention-and-control-a-meta-analysis https://www.myopiaprofile.com/articles/how-outdoor-time-infl...
loandbehold 10mo ago
There was a time people used think the same about books.
- pessimizer 10mo ago
  I don't think there was. But even if so, there was a time people used to think the same about drinking antifreeze, too.
  - loandbehold 10mo ago
    There absolutely was. "reading addiction" was a medical diagnosis in 18th/19th century Europe. And if you read some of the essays about negative effects of reading from this time, it's pretty striking how similar it is to modern views on TV. There was even a German term of that time "Leseseuche" which literally translates as "reading plague".
  - pvab3 10mo ago
    you ought to read some of the early attacks on the printing press. It sounds like your grandpa complaining about TikTok
  - Jblx2 10mo ago
    - Propylene Glycol -- Antifreeze that is also used as a food additive. - Ethylene Glycol -- Antifreeze that is toxic. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/propylene-glycol#TOC_TITLE_HDR_3 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/propylene-glycol#TOC_TI...
- efskap 10mo ago
  That's still consumption of images rather than participation in reality. Kids can absolutely read in excess as a form of escapism. Books are easier than dealing with real life when someone else does the thinking and problem solving for you. Certainly great for learning in moderation but you won't learn interpersonal skills or how to ride a bike just by reading about them.
- autoexec 10mo ago
  Books can also be harmful if abused. They can be used excessively as escapism. They can contain dangerous harmful messages and manipulation. They can be addictive just like anything else can. Content matters a lot, and anything that makes delivering content easy comes with the risk that it will deliver something harmful. Books, TV, and social media have all been used intentionally to spread harm and encourage addiction. Most adults have at least some chance of protecting themselves, but children don't have those defenses developed. It's a good idea to be aware of every form of media children consume.
rspoerri 10mo ago
She was so focussed on it and started crying when we hid it after only a very short time. This is not normal a behaviour. This only happens with things that are very addictive (also for example sugar). I do understand that not everybody can do it like that, but if you can create such an environment it's much better for them (in my opinion).
- stavros 10mo ago
  Interesting, thanks for elaborating.
  - rspoerri 10mo ago
    Understanding of what is happening is often very limited. When I read books or talk to her, I sometimes use words that are unknown to her, she only started asking for the meaning of them recently (she just turned 3). So she will probably only understand 20%-30% even when she understands conversations quite well at home. She is still missing cultural context. She is only starting to understand the difference between a living and a stuffed animal. In an animation movie somebody might hit somebody else, which appears funny to an adult. A child might just take this as normal behaviour and repeats it the next time she sees somebody and doesn't understand why it's not funny. Understanding the real world is difficult enough for her.
    - stavros 10mo ago
      But that's an issue with the content, not the medium, right? There will be shows geared exactly towards kid that age that teach them the right lessons.
      - rspoerri 10mo ago
        I allow her to watch me work (mostly text documents), and we often search for images of an animal or object that she wants printed (today we searched for stars). Also, she can video-phone the grandparents, which is not that addictive from my experience. My screensaver (animated colours) is problematic. Watching a video of herself or the grandparents on the smartphone can be problematic as well, but at least they are typically only a few seconds. So yes, it's a thing of the medium. But most media for kids are colourful, highly animated, childlike characters and voices. Optimized to catch their attention for a long time. Also, the media for kids are barely matching the level of the kids state of knowledge. I use words she understands describing things she asks me about, a TV show never does that.
asielen 10mo ago
I won't argue that it is a universal truth but it has played out the same for my kids and my friends groups kids. They treat it like a drug and lose all emotional regulation. I don't believe all screen time is bad, but it is something you have to teach them to regulate and 3 year olds and younger are just bad at regulating emotion in general. Teaching them to do this is just part of parenting. One of the most important things we can teach our kids is that it is okay to be bored. In fact it is great to be bored sometimes. On the other hand, being a parent is hard and keeping your sanity is important in order to be a good parent. So if it helps you be a better parent all other times, it could be worth it. The issue is when screens are used to in place of parenting. Parents using it as a way to fuel their own screen addiction. On the other hand, for me airplanes are a special case and all rules go out the window to help keep the kid calm.
- mock-possum 10mo ago
  Hard disagree with ‘great to be bored’ - being bored is one of the worst possible feelings, that you’re wasting your time doing nothing when there is almost certainly something you would rather be doing. As a child I used to hate the feeling of boredom, knowing that I could be doing something I wanted to do. As an adult I am hardly ever bored, and it’s a strict improvement, never have I ever found myself wishing I could just go back to being bored. Boredom is such a negative emotion that learning to manage it effectively becomes an essential life skill. Learning to set yourself up for success / be prepared required forethought to anticipate the possibility of boredom and come prepared to deal with it. Acting out on boredom is childish, learning to keep yourself occupied so you don’t become bored is mature.
  - GJim 10mo ago
    > Hard disagree with ‘great to be bored’ - being bored is one of the worst possible feelings, that you’re wasting your time doing nothing when there is almost certainly something you would rather be doing. You <---> The point Being bored is what inspires a kid to daydream for themselves and/or get off their arse and try something new. Being constantly "entertained" by a TV or fondle slab is an anathema to creativity and independent thought. For children and adults.
red-iron-pine 10mo ago
not that guy, but it would cause our kids to completely emotionally deregulate, and become fixated on the TV for a while. and most TV is not great for people. there is a reason depression and anxiety correlate with TV time

How can you tell? What's the thing that made you say "this is bad for her", and why is it not the same for you?

by stavros 10mo ago

How can you tell? What's the thing that made you say "this is bad for her", and why is it not the same for you?

their vision is still developing and staring at a screen is not good for eye development. it removes stimulation and interaction with the environment and replaces it with sedentary and no physical interactions. While the exact reasons are not common knowledge, knowing TV is bad for toddlers is.

ncallaway 10mo ago
> their vision is still developing and staring at a screen is not good for eye development. Is that true? The American Association of Pediatrics doesn't list that as a concern on their page "Health Effects Of Young Kids Being On Screens Too Long" (which is focused on children aged 2-11). Do you have a source I could review for that claim? https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/center-of-excellence-on-social-media-and-youth-mental-health/qa-portal/qa-portal-library/qa-portal-library-questions/health-effects-of-young-kids-being-on-screens-too-long/ https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente... --- (The AAP page about media recommendations for 0-2 also doesn't say anything about eye-development, but _does_ recommend entirely against screen-time for that age-group except for video conversations with people) https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/center-of-excellence-on-social-media-and-youth-mental-health/qa-portal/qa-portal-library/qa-portal-library-questions/screen-time-for-infants/ https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente...
bethekidyouwant 10mo ago
It’s bro-science all the way down. What if your environment is a boring room?
lurking_swe 10mo ago
to clarify, too much “near work” for the eyes is a risk for myopia. That includes reading books all day. My point is, watching an educational tv program like PBS for 30 minutes in the evening will not be the cause for your child wearing glasses. The biggest predictor of good vision from the scientific studies is lots of outdoor time. This is most important from ages 6 to 11. https://www.myopiaprofile.com/articles/how-outdoor-time-influences-myopia-prevention-and-control-a-meta-analysis https://www.myopiaprofile.com/articles/how-outdoor-time-infl...

loandbehold 10mo ago

There was a time people used think the same about books.

pessimizer 10mo ago
I don't think there was. But even if so, there was a time people used to think the same about drinking antifreeze, too.
- loandbehold 10mo ago
  There absolutely was. "reading addiction" was a medical diagnosis in 18th/19th century Europe. And if you read some of the essays about negative effects of reading from this time, it's pretty striking how similar it is to modern views on TV. There was even a German term of that time "Leseseuche" which literally translates as "reading plague".
- pvab3 10mo ago
  you ought to read some of the early attacks on the printing press. It sounds like your grandpa complaining about TikTok
- Jblx2 10mo ago
  - Propylene Glycol -- Antifreeze that is also used as a food additive. - Ethylene Glycol -- Antifreeze that is toxic. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/propylene-glycol#TOC_TITLE_HDR_3 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/propylene-glycol#TOC_TI...
efskap 10mo ago
That's still consumption of images rather than participation in reality. Kids can absolutely read in excess as a form of escapism. Books are easier than dealing with real life when someone else does the thinking and problem solving for you. Certainly great for learning in moderation but you won't learn interpersonal skills or how to ride a bike just by reading about them.
autoexec 10mo ago
Books can also be harmful if abused. They can be used excessively as escapism. They can contain dangerous harmful messages and manipulation. They can be addictive just like anything else can. Content matters a lot, and anything that makes delivering content easy comes with the risk that it will deliver something harmful. Books, TV, and social media have all been used intentionally to spread harm and encourage addiction. Most adults have at least some chance of protecting themselves, but children don't have those defenses developed. It's a good idea to be aware of every form of media children consume.

rspoerri 10mo ago

She was so focussed on it and started crying when we hid it after only a very short time. This is not normal a behaviour. This only happens with things that are very addictive (also for example sugar). I do understand that not everybody can do it like that, but if you can create such an environment it's much better for them (in my opinion).

stavros 10mo ago
Interesting, thanks for elaborating.
- rspoerri 10mo ago
  Understanding of what is happening is often very limited. When I read books or talk to her, I sometimes use words that are unknown to her, she only started asking for the meaning of them recently (she just turned 3). So she will probably only understand 20%-30% even when she understands conversations quite well at home. She is still missing cultural context. She is only starting to understand the difference between a living and a stuffed animal. In an animation movie somebody might hit somebody else, which appears funny to an adult. A child might just take this as normal behaviour and repeats it the next time she sees somebody and doesn't understand why it's not funny. Understanding the real world is difficult enough for her.
  - stavros 10mo ago
    But that's an issue with the content, not the medium, right? There will be shows geared exactly towards kid that age that teach them the right lessons.
    - rspoerri 10mo ago
      I allow her to watch me work (mostly text documents), and we often search for images of an animal or object that she wants printed (today we searched for stars). Also, she can video-phone the grandparents, which is not that addictive from my experience. My screensaver (animated colours) is problematic. Watching a video of herself or the grandparents on the smartphone can be problematic as well, but at least they are typically only a few seconds. So yes, it's a thing of the medium. But most media for kids are colourful, highly animated, childlike characters and voices. Optimized to catch their attention for a long time. Also, the media for kids are barely matching the level of the kids state of knowledge. I use words she understands describing things she asks me about, a TV show never does that.

asielen 10mo ago

I won't argue that it is a universal truth but it has played out the same for my kids and my friends groups kids. They treat it like a drug and lose all emotional regulation. I don't believe all screen time is bad, but it is something you have to teach them to regulate and 3 year olds and younger are just bad at regulating emotion in general. Teaching them to do this is just part of parenting. One of the most important things we can teach our kids is that it is okay to be bored. In fact it is great to be bored sometimes. On the other hand, being a parent is hard and keeping your sanity is important in order to be a good parent. So if it helps you be a better parent all other times, it could be worth it. The issue is when screens are used to in place of parenting. Parents using it as a way to fuel their own screen addiction. On the other hand, for me airplanes are a special case and all rules go out the window to help keep the kid calm.

mock-possum 10mo ago
Hard disagree with ‘great to be bored’ - being bored is one of the worst possible feelings, that you’re wasting your time doing nothing when there is almost certainly something you would rather be doing. As a child I used to hate the feeling of boredom, knowing that I could be doing something I wanted to do. As an adult I am hardly ever bored, and it’s a strict improvement, never have I ever found myself wishing I could just go back to being bored. Boredom is such a negative emotion that learning to manage it effectively becomes an essential life skill. Learning to set yourself up for success / be prepared required forethought to anticipate the possibility of boredom and come prepared to deal with it. Acting out on boredom is childish, learning to keep yourself occupied so you don’t become bored is mature.
- GJim 10mo ago
  > Hard disagree with ‘great to be bored’ - being bored is one of the worst possible feelings, that you’re wasting your time doing nothing when there is almost certainly something you would rather be doing. You <---> The point Being bored is what inspires a kid to daydream for themselves and/or get off their arse and try something new. Being constantly "entertained" by a TV or fondle slab is an anathema to creativity and independent thought. For children and adults.

red-iron-pine 10mo ago

not that guy, but it would cause our kids to completely emotionally deregulate, and become fixated on the TV for a while. and most TV is not great for people. there is a reason depression and anxiety correlate with TV time