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>> people didn't mention the Librem phone > Because people don't care. Now, you made a statement without even anecdotal evidence. I received quite a few upvot

by fsflover 10mo ago

>> people didn't mention the Librem phone > Because people don't care. Now, you made a statement without even anecdotal evidence. I received quite a few upvotes for that comments, indicating that people do care. Nobody said they didn't care. Yes, it's anecdotal evidence. >> I participated in most of them. > And you think that makes your evidence not anecdotal? It might be anecdotal. You are free to count how many other people commented on Librem 5 yourself and disprove my claim.

JCattheATM 10mo ago
> Now, you made a statement without even anecdotal evidence. Kind of...as I said rpeviosuly your evidence actually supports my point, but even if you disagreed, I'm refuting your positive claim, not making a positice claim of my own. The onus is on you alone to support your claim. > I received quite a few upvotes for that comments, indicating that people do care. Nobody said they didn't care. Sure - the point was most people don't care. > You are free to count how many other people commented on Librem 5 yourself and disprove my claim. Pretty easy, just look at the ratio of votes in the last 10 threads you advocate for those phones in, where you maybe get 2 or 3 which is very low compared to the amount of comments and commenters, and then look at the amount of comments you get expressing a negative opinion. You get more negative and neutral feedback combined than positive feedback, indicating people don't care generally or if they do, it's to disagree with you. This is what the evidence shows.
- fsflover 10mo ago
  Such prevalence of negativity may have a different reason than not caring: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46513215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46513215
  - JCattheATM 10mo ago
    Maybe, but that wouldn't explain the disproportionate lack of votes and replies, both of which also indicate a lack of interest.
    - fsflover 10mo ago
      Some of such articles and comments do get a lot of upvotes and positive attention, if they get to the main page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21656355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21656355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25142405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25142405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45053872 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45053872 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 Even not very well-written or globally relevant articles on the topic of mobile freedom attract a lot of attention: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44193198#44193459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44193198#44193459
      - JCattheATM 10mo ago
        From your first link the top comment says: > I do not have a particularly strong trust for the (modern) FSF, so their validation adds nothing, IMHO, Most upvoted reply says: > having FSF validation doesn't prove anything but rather may be detrimental, The second link no one is discussing the FSF certification at all, one guy mentioned it in passing and every other hit for 'fsf' is from your username. Third link only hits for 'fsf' are from your username. Final link 'fsf' returns no hits. I think you are conflating interest in an open source and/or free phone with something FSF approved. My claim above was that most people don't care about an FSF approved phone, and your links here don't show otherwise. I agree there is an interest in an open alternative to Android/iPhone, but that doesn't require FSF approval.
        fsflover 10mo ago
        > The original comment said "We need a third alternative, based on freedom with your device" FSF certification is just one way to indicate freedom. People may not care about it but they do care about freedom.
        JCattheATM 10mo ago
        FSF has a very strict idea about what constitutes freedom which many people that care about freedom do not share. Hence, people can care about freedom, and not care about FSF certifications or even opinions.

JCattheATM 10mo ago

> Now, you made a statement without even anecdotal evidence. Kind of...as I said rpeviosuly your evidence actually supports my point, but even if you disagreed, I'm refuting your positive claim, not making a positice claim of my own. The onus is on you alone to support your claim. > I received quite a few upvotes for that comments, indicating that people do care. Nobody said they didn't care. Sure - the point was most people don't care. > You are free to count how many other people commented on Librem 5 yourself and disprove my claim. Pretty easy, just look at the ratio of votes in the last 10 threads you advocate for those phones in, where you maybe get 2 or 3 which is very low compared to the amount of comments and commenters, and then look at the amount of comments you get expressing a negative opinion. You get more negative and neutral feedback combined than positive feedback, indicating people don't care generally or if they do, it's to disagree with you. This is what the evidence shows.

fsflover 10mo ago
Such prevalence of negativity may have a different reason than not caring: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46513215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46513215
- JCattheATM 10mo ago
  Maybe, but that wouldn't explain the disproportionate lack of votes and replies, both of which also indicate a lack of interest.
  - fsflover 10mo ago
    Some of such articles and comments do get a lot of upvotes and positive attention, if they get to the main page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21656355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21656355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25142405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25142405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45053872 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45053872 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 Even not very well-written or globally relevant articles on the topic of mobile freedom attract a lot of attention: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44193198#44193459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44193198#44193459
    - JCattheATM 10mo ago
      From your first link the top comment says: > I do not have a particularly strong trust for the (modern) FSF, so their validation adds nothing, IMHO, Most upvoted reply says: > having FSF validation doesn't prove anything but rather may be detrimental, The second link no one is discussing the FSF certification at all, one guy mentioned it in passing and every other hit for 'fsf' is from your username. Third link only hits for 'fsf' are from your username. Final link 'fsf' returns no hits. I think you are conflating interest in an open source and/or free phone with something FSF approved. My claim above was that most people don't care about an FSF approved phone, and your links here don't show otherwise. I agree there is an interest in an open alternative to Android/iPhone, but that doesn't require FSF approval.
      - fsflover 10mo ago
        > The original comment said "We need a third alternative, based on freedom with your device" FSF certification is just one way to indicate freedom. People may not care about it but they do care about freedom.
        JCattheATM 10mo ago
        FSF has a very strict idea about what constitutes freedom which many people that care about freedom do not share. Hence, people can care about freedom, and not care about FSF certifications or even opinions.