6 ms·

Keychron's Nape Pro turns your keyboard into a laptop‑style trackball rig

87 points by tortilla 9mo ago

daft_pink 9mo ago
I think the trackpoint nub would have been a better choice.
- stronglikedan 9mo ago
  While I do use one daily (when I'm laptop only), I would say that it seems to be made for fingers, not thumbs. It's hard to be accurate with thumbs.
  - cfraenkel 9mo ago
    Re thumb vs finger control. RSI researcher once told me "Which could you live without, a finger or your right thumb?"
jsheard 9mo ago
It's been a while since laptops came with trackballs, but it's a cool idea nonetheless.
- MisterTea 9mo ago
  Mnt reform and the mini both feature optional track balls. Might be more of a niche but still, you can buy a new laptop with a trackball.
uallo 9mo ago
Is there something similar with a lower profile? I use a Logitech MX Keys keyboard and the trackball seems too high to use it comfortably. Either a trackball or a trackpoint (like the one on Lenovos) would be OK.
- hasperdi 9mo ago
  Not exactly trackballs, but Magic Trackpad can be considered an alternative. Or roller mouse slim (crazy expensive)
- jsheard 9mo ago
  I'm not sure if a standalone trackpoint really makes sense, the main benefit of those is being accessible from the home row, which you lose if it's not integrated into the keyboard. If you're moving your hand anyway then you may as well use something more precise for pointing. If you're willing to replace your keyboard, Lenovo does make a standalone version of their ThinkPad keyboard complete with trackpoint though.
evanjrowley 9mo ago
>Fun design and internals aside, the new trackball module seems to have a 1/4-20 threaded tripod mount on the bottom, a common addition for ergonomic split keyboards that opens up a lot of options for angular mounting and similar ideas. Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Keychron-Nape-Pro-wireless-trackball-estimated-to-cost-130-and-will-launch-after-a-concrete-wireless-gaming-keyboard.1200712.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Keychron-Nape-Pro-wireless-tra... I'm glad they implemented this! Checking the photo of this particular feature, it seems the 1/4-20 thead is paired with another hole: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc5/Keychron-Trackball-black-bottom96.webp https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc5/... I was very hopeful that the hole arrangeemnt would be for an ARRI pin-lock: https://www.arri.com/resource/blob/320202/04f5271d1d21f8c7db4a460d2e871b44/pin-lock-standard-download-data.pdf https://www.arri.com/resource/blob/320202/04f5271d1d21f8c7db... Referring back to the Nape Pro picture from CES, this appears not to be the case. One thing these 1/4-20 mounted ergonomic keyboard designs need is a locking mechanism that prevents the keyboard from gradually pivoting during regular use. For the Nape Pro, I wonder how feasible it would be to drill the hole into it's exterior? If you're thinking of mouting these at the edge of a surface, then make sure your 1/4-20 mounting arms use the ARRI pin lock on that end. It's annoying when your keyboard pivots, but if the whole mounting arm pivots, then you might be in trouble (i.e, a loosened mounting arm swings 180 degrees down towards the ground, potentially damaging your keyboard). Here are some examples of those types of arms from SmallRig: https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-11-inch-with-ARRI-Locating-Screw-4900.html https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-11-inch-with-ARRI... https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-7-inch-with-ARRI-Locating-Screw-4899.html https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-7-inch-with-ARRI-... https://www.smallrig.com/SmallRig-Magic-Arm-with-Dual-Ball-Heads-1-4-20-Screw-and-ARRI-locating-Screw-3874.html https://www.smallrig.com/SmallRig-Magic-Arm-with-Dual-Ball-H... And a clamp that has the ARRI holes: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-super-clamp-2220.html https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-super-clamp-2220.html
- regularfry 9mo ago
  I'd hope that if they're releasing the 3D files, then swapping the baseplate out for something custom or aftermarket won't be too hard. I assume there are fasteners under the rubber feet.
hasperdi 9mo ago
Nice, I want one! Assuming it works great (Keychron products usually do)
- kown7 9mo ago
  But where?
semi-extrinsic 9mo ago
A year ago I went down the rabbit hole of looking into custom trackball-keyboard integrations. Ploopy, Charybdis, Dactyl, CCK-ball, etc. My final boring conclusion is that what I had already been doing for the past 20 years is much cheaper and gets me 99.99% of the way: All you need is a regular ~$50 trackball and a regular ~$100 keyboard without a numpad. (You can have an overlay for that, if you need it.) As someone else pointed out, this new trackball will make you move your fingers (and wrists) significantly off home row. If you do that in one direction or the other doesn't really matter. If this works better for you than a Logitech or Kensington trackball, sweet, use it. But so far all the reviews are like "I've never used a trackball, but this looks cool". We've had this technology since the literal 1990s guys.
- adolph 9mo ago
  Yes, seeing this product's very angular non-3d-printed yet-prototype design brought back memories of the days when the default portable hardware interface didn't always include a pointing device and thus there were these clip-on trackballs, like below. Maybe some of the weirdest were things that looked like small mice that were linked and position-sensed by a bar linkage to the laptop. I can't find a reference to one tho, so maybe I'm mis-remembering? http://xahlee.info/kbd/logitech_trackman_portable_trackball.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/logitech_trackman_portable_trackball....
  - nosrepa 9mo ago
    You are thinking of the HP Omnibook. https://youtu.be/xlXr37mggUE?t=4m50s https://youtu.be/xlXr37mggUE?t=4m50s
    - adolph 9mo ago
      Many thanks! Seeing that mouse-like thing pop out with the "mouse eject button" was very satisfactory. Having not seen that hardware interface today while reviewing Wikipedia entries for pointer devices left me questioning my memory like the Fruit of the Loom cornucopia or "Berenstein Bears".
- 9mo ago
toroszo 9mo ago
Call me when they make a thinkpad-like trackpoint
- space_ghost 9mo ago
  This [0] is pretty close. IBM made a version of the Model M with Trackpoint but those are rare. Lenovo also sells [1] a keyboard that's basically a Thinkpad keyboard with trackpoint in a separate chassis. [0] https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CS1FVF2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CS1FVF2
- tmoertel 9mo ago
  Unicomp, which inherited the IBM Model M tooling, still makes a keyboard with a trackpoint: https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=EnduraPro https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Cate...
  - evanjrowley 9mo ago
    I love that keyboard, but I wish they'd increase the TrackPoint cut out for the GHB keys more. It's not the easiest when attempting to move the cursor to the top-left, top-right, and bottom areas of the screen.
- mrandish 9mo ago
  For trackpoint fans Lenovo makes a classic Thinkpad keyboard as a standalone rechargeable wireless keyboard. It works with Bluetooth, it's own USB wireless dongle or even wired USB. Has a switch for Windows or Android/Linux key mapping. I have one and like it (although it's pricey at around $100). https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/4y40x49493 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb... https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Thinkpad-Trackpoint-Keyboard-4Y40x49493/dp/B08CS1FVF2 https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Thinkpad-Trackpoint-Keyboard-4....
  - evanjrowley 9mo ago
adolph 9mo ago
Seems like the Ploopy Nano with buttons. https://ploopy.co/nano-2/ https://ploopy.co/nano-2/ https://github.com/ploopyco/nano-2-trackball https://github.com/ploopyco/nano-2-trackball
fidotron 9mo ago
People have been putting Blackberry trackballs on QMK builds for quite a while. I'm odd - what I want is a stupidly big trackball, like 4 inches across or so. And it should be able to detect rotation about the vertical axis. It infuriates me how optical tracking systems are designed to provide just translation and no rotation when there's a whole other DoF in play.
- cfraenkel 9mo ago
  You think you do. The issue is it's just about impossible to isolate translation from rotation. You would always be doing just a little rotating every time you touched the ball, whether you wanted to or not. And any time you tried 'rotating', you'd also be moving the cursor. 6DOF devices have been done (ie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 or https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/12416/Logitech-Cyberman/ https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/12416/Logitech-Cyber...). They're sorta fun to use (at first) in CAD for browsing 3D models, but never caught on as once you get good at the CAD UIs, the extra degrees of freedom get in the way more than they help.
  - GuinansEyebrows 9mo ago
    rotation works pretty well for scrolling on the kensington slimblade with a little bit of getting-used-to. when it detects rotation, it stops moving the cursor.
- GuinansEyebrows 9mo ago
  yeah, it drives me a little crazy that the only trackball that supports rotation is the Kensington Slimblade. I'd love to try a ploopy or something else out there, because i don't otherwise particularly like the slimblade (especially the software and the industrial design - ugly!) but i can't give up rotational scrolling. it's so much better than scroll wheels or scroll-mode buttons once you get the hang of it.
- vunderba 9mo ago
  My family had one of the Microsoft EasyBall's growing up - that thing was absolutely huge. https://imgur.com/a/Bu6aiUU https://imgur.com/a/Bu6aiUU The only use we got out of it was as a MAME controller for Marble Madness.
boredatoms 9mo ago
May need a custom wrist pad to surround it
bicepjai 9mo ago
I tried placing trackball on different positions especially with ploopy nano trackball and then with readymade options like UHK; none of them were comfortable enough. I now use the Logitech trackball which feels very convenient.
Bobaso 9mo ago
I have a split keyboard (RKS70) with a magic trackpad in the middle, I love it and recommend this setup, My palms barely move when my index gets out of homerow to reschedule trackpad
burnt-resistor 9mo ago
Prefer a mouse or a trackpad, so .. maybe it's cool in a 00's way. Also, Keychron keyboards are way too heavy. Like 1 Model M too heavy. And web-based only flash updating doesn't feel like real ownership. The upside is it's a model that allows exchanging switches. One thing I didn't appreciate was red key caps without black replacements without buying a whole set.

87 points by tortilla 9mo ago

daft_pink 9mo ago

I think the trackpoint nub would have been a better choice.

stronglikedan 9mo ago
While I do use one daily (when I'm laptop only), I would say that it seems to be made for fingers, not thumbs. It's hard to be accurate with thumbs.
- cfraenkel 9mo ago
  Re thumb vs finger control. RSI researcher once told me "Which could you live without, a finger or your right thumb?"

jsheard 9mo ago

It's been a while since laptops came with trackballs, but it's a cool idea nonetheless.

MisterTea 9mo ago
Mnt reform and the mini both feature optional track balls. Might be more of a niche but still, you can buy a new laptop with a trackball.

uallo 9mo ago

Is there something similar with a lower profile? I use a Logitech MX Keys keyboard and the trackball seems too high to use it comfortably. Either a trackball or a trackpoint (like the one on Lenovos) would be OK.

hasperdi 9mo ago
Not exactly trackballs, but Magic Trackpad can be considered an alternative. Or roller mouse slim (crazy expensive)
jsheard 9mo ago
I'm not sure if a standalone trackpoint really makes sense, the main benefit of those is being accessible from the home row, which you lose if it's not integrated into the keyboard. If you're moving your hand anyway then you may as well use something more precise for pointing. If you're willing to replace your keyboard, Lenovo does make a standalone version of their ThinkPad keyboard complete with trackpoint though.

evanjrowley 9mo ago

>Fun design and internals aside, the new trackball module seems to have a 1/4-20 threaded tripod mount on the bottom, a common addition for ergonomic split keyboards that opens up a lot of options for angular mounting and similar ideas. Source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Keychron-Nape-Pro-wireless-trackball-estimated-to-cost-130-and-will-launch-after-a-concrete-wireless-gaming-keyboard.1200712.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Keychron-Nape-Pro-wireless-tra... I'm glad they implemented this! Checking the photo of this particular feature, it seems the 1/4-20 thead is paired with another hole: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc5/Keychron-Trackball-black-bottom96.webp https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc5/... I was very hopeful that the hole arrangeemnt would be for an ARRI pin-lock: https://www.arri.com/resource/blob/320202/04f5271d1d21f8c7db4a460d2e871b44/pin-lock-standard-download-data.pdf https://www.arri.com/resource/blob/320202/04f5271d1d21f8c7db... Referring back to the Nape Pro picture from CES, this appears not to be the case. One thing these 1/4-20 mounted ergonomic keyboard designs need is a locking mechanism that prevents the keyboard from gradually pivoting during regular use. For the Nape Pro, I wonder how feasible it would be to drill the hole into it's exterior? If you're thinking of mouting these at the edge of a surface, then make sure your 1/4-20 mounting arms use the ARRI pin lock on that end. It's annoying when your keyboard pivots, but if the whole mounting arm pivots, then you might be in trouble (i.e, a loosened mounting arm swings 180 degrees down towards the ground, potentially damaging your keyboard). Here are some examples of those types of arms from SmallRig: https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-11-inch-with-ARRI-Locating-Screw-4900.html https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-11-inch-with-ARRI... https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-7-inch-with-ARRI-Locating-Screw-4899.html https://www.smallrig.com/Rosette-Magic-Arm-7-inch-with-ARRI-... https://www.smallrig.com/SmallRig-Magic-Arm-with-Dual-Ball-Heads-1-4-20-Screw-and-ARRI-locating-Screw-3874.html https://www.smallrig.com/SmallRig-Magic-Arm-with-Dual-Ball-H... And a clamp that has the ARRI holes: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-super-clamp-2220.html https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-super-clamp-2220.html

regularfry 9mo ago
I'd hope that if they're releasing the 3D files, then swapping the baseplate out for something custom or aftermarket won't be too hard. I assume there are fasteners under the rubber feet.

hasperdi 9mo ago

Nice, I want one! Assuming it works great (Keychron products usually do)

kown7 9mo ago
But where?

semi-extrinsic 9mo ago

A year ago I went down the rabbit hole of looking into custom trackball-keyboard integrations. Ploopy, Charybdis, Dactyl, CCK-ball, etc. My final boring conclusion is that what I had already been doing for the past 20 years is much cheaper and gets me 99.99% of the way: All you need is a regular ~$50 trackball and a regular ~$100 keyboard without a numpad. (You can have an overlay for that, if you need it.) As someone else pointed out, this new trackball will make you move your fingers (and wrists) significantly off home row. If you do that in one direction or the other doesn't really matter. If this works better for you than a Logitech or Kensington trackball, sweet, use it. But so far all the reviews are like "I've never used a trackball, but this looks cool". We've had this technology since the literal 1990s guys.

adolph 9mo ago
Yes, seeing this product's very angular non-3d-printed yet-prototype design brought back memories of the days when the default portable hardware interface didn't always include a pointing device and thus there were these clip-on trackballs, like below. Maybe some of the weirdest were things that looked like small mice that were linked and position-sensed by a bar linkage to the laptop. I can't find a reference to one tho, so maybe I'm mis-remembering? http://xahlee.info/kbd/logitech_trackman_portable_trackball.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/logitech_trackman_portable_trackball....
- nosrepa 9mo ago
  You are thinking of the HP Omnibook. https://youtu.be/xlXr37mggUE?t=4m50s https://youtu.be/xlXr37mggUE?t=4m50s
  - adolph 9mo ago
    Many thanks! Seeing that mouse-like thing pop out with the "mouse eject button" was very satisfactory. Having not seen that hardware interface today while reviewing Wikipedia entries for pointer devices left me questioning my memory like the Fruit of the Loom cornucopia or "Berenstein Bears".
9mo ago

toroszo 9mo ago

Call me when they make a thinkpad-like trackpoint

space_ghost 9mo ago
This [0] is pretty close. IBM made a version of the Model M with Trackpoint but those are rare. Lenovo also sells [1] a keyboard that's basically a Thinkpad keyboard with trackpoint in a separate chassis. [0] https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CS1FVF2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CS1FVF2
tmoertel 9mo ago
Unicomp, which inherited the IBM Model M tooling, still makes a keyboard with a trackpoint: https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=EnduraPro https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Cate...
- evanjrowley 9mo ago
  I love that keyboard, but I wish they'd increase the TrackPoint cut out for the GHB keys more. It's not the easiest when attempting to move the cursor to the top-left, top-right, and bottom areas of the screen.
mrandish 9mo ago
For trackpoint fans Lenovo makes a classic Thinkpad keyboard as a standalone rechargeable wireless keyboard. It works with Bluetooth, it's own USB wireless dongle or even wired USB. Has a switch for Windows or Android/Linux key mapping. I have one and like it (although it's pricey at around $100). https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/4y40x49493 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb... https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Thinkpad-Trackpoint-Keyboard-4Y40x49493/dp/B08CS1FVF2 https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Thinkpad-Trackpoint-Keyboard-4....
- evanjrowley 9mo ago

adolph 9mo ago

Seems like the Ploopy Nano with buttons. https://ploopy.co/nano-2/ https://ploopy.co/nano-2/ https://github.com/ploopyco/nano-2-trackball https://github.com/ploopyco/nano-2-trackball

fidotron 9mo ago

People have been putting Blackberry trackballs on QMK builds for quite a while. I'm odd - what I want is a stupidly big trackball, like 4 inches across or so. And it should be able to detect rotation about the vertical axis. It infuriates me how optical tracking systems are designed to provide just translation and no rotation when there's a whole other DoF in play.

cfraenkel 9mo ago
You think you do. The issue is it's just about impossible to isolate translation from rotation. You would always be doing just a little rotating every time you touched the ball, whether you wanted to or not. And any time you tried 'rotating', you'd also be moving the cursor. 6DOF devices have been done (ie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 or https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/12416/Logitech-Cyberman/ https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/12416/Logitech-Cyber...). They're sorta fun to use (at first) in CAD for browsing 3D models, but never caught on as once you get good at the CAD UIs, the extra degrees of freedom get in the way more than they help.
- GuinansEyebrows 9mo ago
  rotation works pretty well for scrolling on the kensington slimblade with a little bit of getting-used-to. when it detects rotation, it stops moving the cursor.
GuinansEyebrows 9mo ago
yeah, it drives me a little crazy that the only trackball that supports rotation is the Kensington Slimblade. I'd love to try a ploopy or something else out there, because i don't otherwise particularly like the slimblade (especially the software and the industrial design - ugly!) but i can't give up rotational scrolling. it's so much better than scroll wheels or scroll-mode buttons once you get the hang of it.
vunderba 9mo ago
My family had one of the Microsoft EasyBall's growing up - that thing was absolutely huge. https://imgur.com/a/Bu6aiUU https://imgur.com/a/Bu6aiUU The only use we got out of it was as a MAME controller for Marble Madness.

boredatoms 9mo ago

May need a custom wrist pad to surround it

bicepjai 9mo ago

I tried placing trackball on different positions especially with ploopy nano trackball and then with readymade options like UHK; none of them were comfortable enough. I now use the Logitech trackball which feels very convenient.

Bobaso 9mo ago

I have a split keyboard (RKS70) with a magic trackpad in the middle, I love it and recommend this setup, My palms barely move when my index gets out of homerow to reschedule trackpad

burnt-resistor 9mo ago

Prefer a mouse or a trackpad, so .. maybe it's cool in a 00's way. Also, Keychron keyboards are way too heavy. Like 1 Model M too heavy. And web-based only flash updating doesn't feel like real ownership. The upside is it's a model that allows exchanging switches. One thing I didn't appreciate was red key caps without black replacements without buying a whole set.