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My brother was on it for a bit (and should go on it again) and the thing he noted was that it makes it easy to not eat but it gives you no useful habits to keep

by XorNot 10mo ago

My brother was on it for a bit (and should go on it again) and the thing he noted was that it makes it easy to not eat but it gives you no useful habits to keep that up because it's so easy. Which makes sense. I still calorie count everything generally because I know I'll let myself creep portion sizes unchecked.

nemomarx 10mo ago
I think durable habits there are just hard honestly. I was losing weight when I was very strict about calorie counting and lived with a roommate who was on the same diet, but when I moved out and stayed with family my habits and intuition about safe foods didn't last long and temptation got me again. It does make me think we're applying bandaids over some other issue with the available foods - it's hard to imagine that everyone 50 years ago was just much better about dieting and counting calories?
- rootusrootus 10mo ago
  > it's hard to imagine that everyone 50 years ago was just much better about dieting and counting calories? Do we just have a lot more food available now? Not just bad food, but calories of all kinds? Combined with steadily automating nearly all of the hard work, I'm not surprised people get fatter these days than 50 years ago. I bet the average person today is actually much more aware of what healthy eating looks like, it's just that there aren't that many really physical jobs anymore and food is extremely cheap and plentiful for most.
  - buellerbueller 10mo ago
    Snacking (defined as between-meal eating) has had a massive uptrend (in the USA) since the 1970s: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10097271/#:~:text=Snacks%20are%20a%20staple%20of%20the%20American%20diet%2C%20accounting%20for,foods%20diminish%20overall%20diet%20quality. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10097271/#:~:text=S...
- pixl97 10mo ago
  It's really closer to 70 years ago to see the roots of the obesity epidemic in the US and had a lot to do with the post war world. To put it in another way, machines have taken over the vast majority of labor. Even people that do 'hard' jobs are still using a ton of tools that decrease the amount of physical effort they put in the job. Add in we converted the country from a human oriented place to one where cars rule, all while increasing the ease of consumption and we now have an epidemic.
  - phil21 10mo ago
    It also coincides with the rise of manufactured foods available for incredibly cheap prices. And the average percentage of a monthly budget spent on food going down. Basically incredibly tasty food became plentiful and cheap and convenient right when physical labor went away.
whatshisface 10mo ago
I don't think it's natural (in the sense of defining health) for adequate homeostasis to require special rituals and constant attention.
- rootusrootus 10mo ago
  Agreed 100%. I think if your strategy for maintaining a good diet relies on weighing food and counting every last calorie, you are inevitably going to fail. Something more fundamental, natural, habit forming, whatever -- that will be the right answer. Naturally trim people don't count calories to stay that way, either.
  - XorNot 10mo ago
    Look at the modern world and tell me where natural is supposed to fit in though? I work a desk job in a knowledge work based society with consistent, reliable caloric abundance. The body doesn't know it's not on the African plains and needing to bank the current bounty because who knows when it'll eat next.
  - pixl97 10mo ago
    >Naturally trim people don't count calories to stay that way, either. Wouldn't it be funny if we discovered that naturally trim people just produce more hormones like glp...
  - Yodel0914 10mo ago
    Of course naturally “trim” people don’t count calories - they don’t have to. Just like I don’t have to monitor my blood glucose level, but my Type 1 diabetic friend does. You can’t apply to habits of one physiologic group to a different group and expect the same results.
- AndrewDucker 10mo ago
  So what do you suggest instead?
- overgard 10mo ago
  To be fair, 12 step programs would be a counter argument. The maintenance of homeostasis requires constant attention in those programs. You could say overeating is different from other addictions, and I would agree, but there are a lot of similarities too..

by XorNot 10mo ago

nemomarx 10mo ago

I think durable habits there are just hard honestly. I was losing weight when I was very strict about calorie counting and lived with a roommate who was on the same diet, but when I moved out and stayed with family my habits and intuition about safe foods didn't last long and temptation got me again. It does make me think we're applying bandaids over some other issue with the available foods - it's hard to imagine that everyone 50 years ago was just much better about dieting and counting calories?

rootusrootus 10mo ago
> it's hard to imagine that everyone 50 years ago was just much better about dieting and counting calories? Do we just have a lot more food available now? Not just bad food, but calories of all kinds? Combined with steadily automating nearly all of the hard work, I'm not surprised people get fatter these days than 50 years ago. I bet the average person today is actually much more aware of what healthy eating looks like, it's just that there aren't that many really physical jobs anymore and food is extremely cheap and plentiful for most.
- buellerbueller 10mo ago
  Snacking (defined as between-meal eating) has had a massive uptrend (in the USA) since the 1970s: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10097271/#:~:text=Snacks%20are%20a%20staple%20of%20the%20American%20diet%2C%20accounting%20for,foods%20diminish%20overall%20diet%20quality. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10097271/#:~:text=S...
pixl97 10mo ago
It's really closer to 70 years ago to see the roots of the obesity epidemic in the US and had a lot to do with the post war world. To put it in another way, machines have taken over the vast majority of labor. Even people that do 'hard' jobs are still using a ton of tools that decrease the amount of physical effort they put in the job. Add in we converted the country from a human oriented place to one where cars rule, all while increasing the ease of consumption and we now have an epidemic.
- phil21 10mo ago
  It also coincides with the rise of manufactured foods available for incredibly cheap prices. And the average percentage of a monthly budget spent on food going down. Basically incredibly tasty food became plentiful and cheap and convenient right when physical labor went away.

whatshisface 10mo ago

I don't think it's natural (in the sense of defining health) for adequate homeostasis to require special rituals and constant attention.

rootusrootus 10mo ago
Agreed 100%. I think if your strategy for maintaining a good diet relies on weighing food and counting every last calorie, you are inevitably going to fail. Something more fundamental, natural, habit forming, whatever -- that will be the right answer. Naturally trim people don't count calories to stay that way, either.
- XorNot 10mo ago
  Look at the modern world and tell me where natural is supposed to fit in though? I work a desk job in a knowledge work based society with consistent, reliable caloric abundance. The body doesn't know it's not on the African plains and needing to bank the current bounty because who knows when it'll eat next.
- pixl97 10mo ago
  >Naturally trim people don't count calories to stay that way, either. Wouldn't it be funny if we discovered that naturally trim people just produce more hormones like glp...
- Yodel0914 10mo ago
  Of course naturally “trim” people don’t count calories - they don’t have to. Just like I don’t have to monitor my blood glucose level, but my Type 1 diabetic friend does. You can’t apply to habits of one physiologic group to a different group and expect the same results.
AndrewDucker 10mo ago
So what do you suggest instead?
overgard 10mo ago
To be fair, 12 step programs would be a counter argument. The maintenance of homeostasis requires constant attention in those programs. You could say overeating is different from other addictions, and I would agree, but there are a lot of similarities too..