3 ms·

In the book the Palantir are technically neutral devices for Seeing things, that, it turns out, are inherently prone to misuse and once used for Evil, are incre

In the book the Palantir are technically neutral devices for Seeing things, that, it turns out, are inherently prone to misuse and once used for Evil, are incredibly difficult to use in any other way. A better metaphor (accidental or not) for surveillance technology I've never seen.

wyldfire 10mo ago
> A better metaphor (accidental or not) for surveillance technology I've never seen. "We are easily corrupted" [1] https://www.westword.com/opinion/opinion-palantir-technologies-puts-colorado-at-center-of-future-of-ai-23822908/ https://www.westword.com/opinion/opinion-palantir-technologi... [2] https://www.pogo.org/investigates/stephen-miller-conflicts-of-interest#:~:text=Ethics%20experts%20say%20Miller%27s%20deep%20involvement%20in,in%20Palantir%20raises%20conflict%20of%20interest%20concerns. https://www.pogo.org/investigates/stephen-miller-conflicts-o...
actionfromafar 10mo ago
Edit: it just occurred to me that the book describes a kind of filter bubble, too. The Palantir stones are inherently incapable of showing false data. But they became tuned over time to show highly editorialized video clips which supported a specific (Evil) narrative. That (IIRC) included future projections of possible outcomes. Denethor (?) tried to use a Palantir for good, but went mad after viewing its selections for years.
- Ntrails 10mo ago
  Denethor was allowed to see what Sauron wanted him to see and nothing more, because he lacked the ability to control the stone away from Sauron. The parallel falls apart somewhat since here his access was essentially controlled by a third party. (you might argue it reflects certain social media outcomes ofc)
  - actionfromafar 10mo ago
    Social media and Fox News.
db48x 10mo ago
> once used for Evil, are incredibly difficult to use in any other way. That’s not true. They were only dangerous to use as long as an insanely powerful immortal demon god had one. If you used a Palantir he would notice and draw your eye toward him. He could then make you see what he wanted you to see, unless you were strong enough to resist. He corrupted Saruman and Denethor merely by talking to them, showing them misleading things, and convincing them that he could not be defeated by any means. Kill Sauron and the Palantiri are safe to use again. The tools are neutral. It is the users who are good or evil. It’s the same with the Throne of Amon Hen, fwiw. It’s only dangerous to use because Sauron will notice that you’re using it.
- actionfromafar 10mo ago
  TIL. So it's an even better analogy. Tech is not a problem unless Sauron can read our positional data and control our attention machines in our pockets.
  - db48x 10mo ago
    To blame the phone in your pocket is also to miss the point. There are whole industries out there aiming to manipulate your attention. Television, news, advertising, etc, etc. They’ve been manipulating people for centuries, and don’t need phones to do it.
- davidrupp 10mo ago
  > Kill Sauron and the Palantiri are safe to use again. Alt: Be Aragorn and wrest control of the Orthanc stone from Sauron.

wyldfire 10mo ago

> A better metaphor (accidental or not) for surveillance technology I've never seen. "We are easily corrupted" [1] https://www.westword.com/opinion/opinion-palantir-technologies-puts-colorado-at-center-of-future-of-ai-23822908/ https://www.westword.com/opinion/opinion-palantir-technologi... [2] https://www.pogo.org/investigates/stephen-miller-conflicts-of-interest#:~:text=Ethics%20experts%20say%20Miller%27s%20deep%20involvement%20in,in%20Palantir%20raises%20conflict%20of%20interest%20concerns. https://www.pogo.org/investigates/stephen-miller-conflicts-o...

actionfromafar 10mo ago

Edit: it just occurred to me that the book describes a kind of filter bubble, too. The Palantir stones are inherently incapable of showing false data. But they became tuned over time to show highly editorialized video clips which supported a specific (Evil) narrative. That (IIRC) included future projections of possible outcomes. Denethor (?) tried to use a Palantir for good, but went mad after viewing its selections for years.

Ntrails 10mo ago
Denethor was allowed to see what Sauron wanted him to see and nothing more, because he lacked the ability to control the stone away from Sauron. The parallel falls apart somewhat since here his access was essentially controlled by a third party. (you might argue it reflects certain social media outcomes ofc)
- actionfromafar 10mo ago
  Social media and Fox News.

db48x 10mo ago

> once used for Evil, are incredibly difficult to use in any other way. That’s not true. They were only dangerous to use as long as an insanely powerful immortal demon god had one. If you used a Palantir he would notice and draw your eye toward him. He could then make you see what he wanted you to see, unless you were strong enough to resist. He corrupted Saruman and Denethor merely by talking to them, showing them misleading things, and convincing them that he could not be defeated by any means. Kill Sauron and the Palantiri are safe to use again. The tools are neutral. It is the users who are good or evil. It’s the same with the Throne of Amon Hen, fwiw. It’s only dangerous to use because Sauron will notice that you’re using it.

actionfromafar 10mo ago
TIL. So it's an even better analogy. Tech is not a problem unless Sauron can read our positional data and control our attention machines in our pockets.
- db48x 10mo ago
  To blame the phone in your pocket is also to miss the point. There are whole industries out there aiming to manipulate your attention. Television, news, advertising, etc, etc. They’ve been manipulating people for centuries, and don’t need phones to do it.
davidrupp 10mo ago
> Kill Sauron and the Palantiri are safe to use again. Alt: Be Aragorn and wrest control of the Orthanc stone from Sauron.