4 ms·

Is not climate change mismanagement or complete neglect of the problem?

by pmezard 9mo ago

schainks 9mo ago
Iran specifically had infrastructure in place to help manage the water for Tehran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat). The Ayatollahs not only _destroyed_ that infrastructure and the system of humans needed to maintain it, but they also encouraged pumping of water from local aquifers, among other obviously stupid water management techniques: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/khomeini-promised-free-water-iran-running-out-it https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/khomeini... So, you are right, but in Iran's case, the current regime pretty much did the opposite of anything you should have done, while also chopping of their hands to do anything more.
baxtr 9mo ago
Absolutely. But the problems are on different time scales and spheres of influence. Iran can’t do anything on their own against climate change. But they can decide to fund water projects instead of bombs. It’s a bit like saying: I went to the beach for a day and got sunburned. It’s climate change! Yes the sun got more intense because of climate change (maybe) but why didn’t you buy an umbrella or sun screen?
- paganel 9mo ago
  > But they can decide to fund water projects instead of bombs. And become again a client state of the West, you forgot that part.
  - baxtr 9mo ago
    Oh yes sorry. I forgot that it’s much better to let your people starve then to be a client state of the West. I think you have your trade-offs right.
    - croes 9mo ago
      People in western client states still starve just with less of their countries resources.
      - inglor_cz 9mo ago
        The closest semi-Westernized country to Iran in the same region is Turkey: * Highly educated population. * Remnant of an ancient non-Arab Islamic empire. * Almost precisely the same population count. And people don't starve in Turkey. Why would they starve in a Western-aligned Iran? The main problem in the richer half of the world is already obesity.
        croes 9mo ago
        Client state doesn't mean westernized. Just pick a random African country where the West helps.
        inglor_cz 9mo ago
        Iran is an ancient and developed civilization, though. One of the oldest in the world. There is no reason why it should develop into the next South Sudan. And some African countries are, in fact, developing as well. I don't think that an average Kenyan starves either.
    - paganel 9mo ago
      > I forgot that it’s much better to let your people starve It's actually the US making the Iranian people starve on account of their (US's) economic war against Iran, and the same goes for Cuba and the Cubans living in Cuba. Saying that the Iranians should embrace with full arms the same Westerners that are making them starve right at this moment has to be a bit.
      - baxtr 9mo ago
        Yes, it's always other people. It's never the actual leaders of a country who kill their own people.
  - graemep 9mo ago
    > And become again a client state of the West, you forgot that part. That matters if you live in a functioning democracy. If you are being exploited and oppressed by your own ruling class rather than a foreign one it makes little difference. You might even be better off.
- Y-bar 9mo ago
  Over 50% of their economy is petroleum, managed by the Ministry of Petroleum government body. They pump over 4 Million barrels per day (https://ycharts.com/indicators/iran_crude_oil_production https://ycharts.com/indicators/iran_crude_oil_production). This equals about 1.7 Million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions per day, which is an increase of 120% since year 2000 and corresponds to about 2% of the global CO2 emissions. No nation on earth like Iran, save perhaps for China and Norway, is in such a unique position of power, both economically, socially, and with the engineering knowhow) and political ability to actually do something to prevent climate damage. Instead they are making the situation more difficult.
  - baxtr 9mo ago
    Yes I agree. Still it isn’t either or. You can do both if you’re sensible. One will help in the mid-term and the other in the long-term.
    - Y-bar 9mo ago
      It's a clear case of sleeping in the bed you made yourself. Climate change has made droughts more common and more severe. https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/goddard/warming-makes-droughts-extreme-wet-events-more-frequent-intense/ https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/goddard/warming-...
  - withinboredom 9mo ago
    I mean. If they didn’t sell the oil, a man in orange shows up declaring the spice must flow. The best spice.
graemep 9mo ago
Climate change is actually a strong reason for better management. The same is true everywhere. More floods? You need to provide better drainage. Drier climate risking more forest fires? You need to manage forests better. In many cases governments are cutting back on spending on dealing with these sorts of problems because they can avoid blame by saying it is a result of climate change and few people ask why they did not act to mitigate the effects.
- throwaway173738 9mo ago
  What gets me is that the same politicians in the US sat things med to be managed better but also that we always need to be spending less. It’s basically “not my problem, someone else can take care of that.”
bamboozled 9mo ago
Thank you!

Is not climate change mismanagement or complete neglect of the problem?

by pmezard 9mo ago

Is not climate change mismanagement or complete neglect of the problem?

Iran specifically had infrastructure in place to help manage the water for Tehran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat). The Ayatollahs not only _destroyed_ that infrastructure and the system of humans needed to maintain it, but they also encouraged pumping of water from local aquifers, among other obviously stupid water management techniques: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/khomeini-promised-free-water-iran-running-out-it https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/khomeini... So, you are right, but in Iran's case, the current regime pretty much did the opposite of anything you should have done, while also chopping of their hands to do anything more.

baxtr 9mo ago

Absolutely. But the problems are on different time scales and spheres of influence. Iran can’t do anything on their own against climate change. But they can decide to fund water projects instead of bombs. It’s a bit like saying: I went to the beach for a day and got sunburned. It’s climate change! Yes the sun got more intense because of climate change (maybe) but why didn’t you buy an umbrella or sun screen?

paganel 9mo ago
> But they can decide to fund water projects instead of bombs. And become again a client state of the West, you forgot that part.
- baxtr 9mo ago
  Oh yes sorry. I forgot that it’s much better to let your people starve then to be a client state of the West. I think you have your trade-offs right.
  - croes 9mo ago
    People in western client states still starve just with less of their countries resources.
    - inglor_cz 9mo ago
      The closest semi-Westernized country to Iran in the same region is Turkey: * Highly educated population. * Remnant of an ancient non-Arab Islamic empire. * Almost precisely the same population count. And people don't starve in Turkey. Why would they starve in a Western-aligned Iran? The main problem in the richer half of the world is already obesity.
      - croes 9mo ago
        Client state doesn't mean westernized. Just pick a random African country where the West helps.
        inglor_cz 9mo ago
        Iran is an ancient and developed civilization, though. One of the oldest in the world. There is no reason why it should develop into the next South Sudan. And some African countries are, in fact, developing as well. I don't think that an average Kenyan starves either.
  - paganel 9mo ago
    > I forgot that it’s much better to let your people starve It's actually the US making the Iranian people starve on account of their (US's) economic war against Iran, and the same goes for Cuba and the Cubans living in Cuba. Saying that the Iranians should embrace with full arms the same Westerners that are making them starve right at this moment has to be a bit.
    - baxtr 9mo ago
      Yes, it's always other people. It's never the actual leaders of a country who kill their own people.
- graemep 9mo ago
  > And become again a client state of the West, you forgot that part. That matters if you live in a functioning democracy. If you are being exploited and oppressed by your own ruling class rather than a foreign one it makes little difference. You might even be better off.
Y-bar 9mo ago
Over 50% of their economy is petroleum, managed by the Ministry of Petroleum government body. They pump over 4 Million barrels per day (https://ycharts.com/indicators/iran_crude_oil_production https://ycharts.com/indicators/iran_crude_oil_production). This equals about 1.7 Million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions per day, which is an increase of 120% since year 2000 and corresponds to about 2% of the global CO2 emissions. No nation on earth like Iran, save perhaps for China and Norway, is in such a unique position of power, both economically, socially, and with the engineering knowhow) and political ability to actually do something to prevent climate damage. Instead they are making the situation more difficult.
- baxtr 9mo ago
  Yes I agree. Still it isn’t either or. You can do both if you’re sensible. One will help in the mid-term and the other in the long-term.
  - Y-bar 9mo ago
    It's a clear case of sleeping in the bed you made yourself. Climate change has made droughts more common and more severe. https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/goddard/warming-makes-droughts-extreme-wet-events-more-frequent-intense/ https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/goddard/warming-...
- withinboredom 9mo ago
  I mean. If they didn’t sell the oil, a man in orange shows up declaring the spice must flow. The best spice.

graemep 9mo ago

Climate change is actually a strong reason for better management. The same is true everywhere. More floods? You need to provide better drainage. Drier climate risking more forest fires? You need to manage forests better. In many cases governments are cutting back on spending on dealing with these sorts of problems because they can avoid blame by saying it is a result of climate change and few people ask why they did not act to mitigate the effects.

throwaway173738 9mo ago
What gets me is that the same politicians in the US sat things med to be managed better but also that we always need to be spending less. It’s basically “not my problem, someone else can take care of that.”

bamboozled 9mo ago

Thank you!