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But the drought was not caused by climate change, but by mismanagement ie complete neglect of the problem.
by baxtr 9mo ago
But the drought was not caused by climate change, but by mismanagement ie complete neglect of the problem.
- Y-bar 9mo agoArguably the climate change we see today (and will see in the future) is also largely caused by mismanagement and complete neglect of the problem.
- pmezard 9mo agoIs not climate change mismanagement or complete neglect of the problem?
- schainks 9mo agoIran specifically had infrastructure in place to help manage the water for Tehran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat). The Ayatollahs not only _destroyed_ that infrastructure and the system of humans needed to maintain it, but they also encouraged pumping of water from local aquifers, among other obviously stupid water management techniques: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/khomeini-promised-free-water-iran-running-out-it https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/khomeini... So, you are right, but in Iran's case, the current regime pretty much did the opposite of anything you should have done, while also chopping of their hands to do anything more.
- baxtr 9mo agoAbsolutely. But the problems are on different time scales and spheres of influence. Iran can’t do anything on their own against climate change. But they can decide to fund water projects instead of bombs. It’s a bit like saying: I went to the beach for a day and got sunburned. It’s climate change! Yes the sun got more intense because of climate change (maybe) but why didn’t you buy an umbrella or sun screen?
- paganel 9mo ago> But they can decide to fund water projects instead of bombs. And become again a client state of the West, you forgot that part.
- baxtr 9mo agoOh yes sorry. I forgot that it’s much better to let your people starve then to be a client state of the West. I think you have your trade-offs right.
- croes 9mo agoPeople in western client states still starve just with less of their countries resources.
- inglor_cz 9mo agoThe closest semi-Westernized country to Iran in the same region is Turkey: * Highly educated population. * Remnant of an ancient non-Arab Islamic empire. * Almost precisely the same population count. And people don't starve in Turkey. Why would they starve in a Western-aligned Iran? The main problem in the richer half of the world is already obesity.
- croes 9mo agoClient state doesn't mean westernized. Just pick a random African country where the West helps.
- inglor_cz 9mo agoIran is an ancient and developed civilization, though. One of the oldest in the world. There is no reason why it should develop into the next South Sudan. And some African countries are, in fact, developing as well. I don't think that an average Kenyan starves either.
- graemep 9mo agoClimate change is actually a strong reason for better management. The same is true everywhere. More floods? You need to provide better drainage. Drier climate risking more forest fires? You need to manage forests better. In many cases governments are cutting back on spending on dealing with these sorts of problems because they can avoid blame by saying it is a result of climate change and few people ask why they did not act to mitigate the effects.
- throwaway173738 9mo agoWhat gets me is that the same politicians in the US sat things med to be managed better but also that we always need to be spending less. It’s basically “not my problem, someone else can take care of that.”
- bamboozled 9mo agoThank you!
- energy123 9mo agoMonocausality is quite the assertion.
- baxtr 9mo agoFirst of all, usually "and" denotes at least two separate things. Second mismanagement is a super broad term showing failure on all levels of the state. It’s definitely not monocausal but the effect many years of utter betrayal of their own people.
- energy123 9mo agoI agree with those causes. But climate change is also a cause. It magnifies the consequences of mismanagement, reducing the luxury incompetence margin that an equally incompetent theocrat/autocrat could have relied on 30 years ago. As climate change gets worse in the future, the margin for error will keep shrinking. More countries will start to experience similar problems. Only the most competent will survive, but eventually regional instability will attack the foundations of that state capacity as a contagion byproduct, making it harder to be the competent outlier. This all becomes a push driver for migration towards the colder north, as the equator becomes progressively destabilized and uninhabitable. Not only water shortages in dry climates but wet-bulb temperatures in temperate climates that make existing outdoors dangerous for periods of the year.
- baxtr 9mo agoYes I agree that climate change is a huge problem but it doesn’t release the leaders of a country of their responsibility to mitigate the effects wherever possible.
- maest 9mo agoThis argument is particularly pernicious as it can, in it's general form, always deflect from the issues of climate change and always focus on blaming local governments. This is what will happen in the future btw - climate change will apply pressure via famine and droughts, but the fallout will always be attributed to the failure of local governments to correctly "manage the change". We'll go from "climate change is a hoax" to "climate change is just a given and it's your duty to manage it".