4 ms·

> I think the real test will be, not whatever this administration does, but how much of that survives into the next one - how much is the new normal versus how

> I think the real test will be, not whatever this administration does, but how much of that survives into the next one - how much is the new normal versus how much is a temporary aberration. A reminder that this is the second time that Trump has been elected. (People were saying what you're now saying after he was kicked out—an event that he says was rigged—the first time.)

acdha 9mo ago
Exactly: there was a brief moment when it looked like Republicans were willing to hold him accountable after the January 6th insurrection but that faltered and they circled ranks, especially when Roberts signaled that Trump had the support of the Supreme Court to the extent that they were willing to concoct a new constitutional doctrine to shield him. A lot of people were hoping he’d just go away without them having to do anything difficult, but it’s clear that the next government has to reestablish the United States as a constitutional republic with the rule of law, even if it means hard things like trials for officials who abused their power. This kind of slide into authoritarianism isn’t an accident, and without consequences the people pushing it will keep trying.
- hackingonempty 9mo ago
  What makes you think he is not going to pardon every single person in his administration, every single loyal Republican?
  - moogly 9mo ago
    The presidential pardon is clearly something that needs to either be heavily reined in or removed. How you do that I don't know, but turns out the US Constitution is something you can ignore, so... The entire system of checks and balances needs some rethinking because it's clearly not as "perfect" as we've been told over and over again.
  - _DeadFred_ 9mo ago
    ex post facto can be ignored, and a new law of the land passed voiding pardons during 47s term. Because repealing pardons isn't weaponizing the person pardoned's behavior after the fact, it's against Presidential authority, so isn't ex post facto when it comes to the person who's behavior was legally determined to be criminal. Voiding a commutation for cause would be tougher and potential ex post facto, but not a pardon. We can void those without violating our ex post facto standards.
    - skissane 9mo ago
      What are the odds the current Supreme Court majority are going to uphold voiding Trump's pardons? Pretty to close to zero. The only way you could do this would be if you changed the SCOTUS composition through court packing or impeachment or constitutional amendment. If you wait for the conservative justices to retire and be replaced through death/resignation – by the time that happens, the issue of voiding pardons will likely be mostly irrelevant, because most of the pardonees will be already dead. And that's assuming the political fortune to be able to replace them with justices of a different persuasion, as opposed to just more of the same.
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
      - _DeadFred_ 9mo ago
        We will see what comes out of this. Might be relevant https://www.fox5dc.com/news/dc-pipe-bomb-suspect-voted-trump-twice-qualifies-pardon-like-other-j6-defendants-lawyer-says https://www.fox5dc.com/news/dc-pipe-bomb-suspect-voted-trump...
rootusrootus 9mo ago
A lot of us are really, really hoping that there is something unique about Trump that cannot be easily reproduced by the next MAGA leader. That the movement will fragment into irrelevancy as the usual elites regain control.
- throw0101c 9mo ago
  This is what Wolff, who has written 3-4 biographical books on Trump, thinks: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wolff_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wolff_(journalist) He used the term suis generic in a (PBS?) interview to describe Trump: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis
  - rootusrootus 9mo ago
    It may be that I'm a naive optimist, but I agree with him. When I look at who the hard core believers envision as the next torch-bearer, none of them have what it takes. Not Vance, not Rubio (Rubio! Suddenly he is 'strong'?? When was that ever a widely held opinion??), not the Trump kids. Trump has a way of defying political gravity and repeatedly escaping the consequences that take down every other politician. In this case the liberal consensus that it's a cult may not be that far from the truth -- maybe that's a loaded term, but how else do you describe a group of supporters whose faith is so strong that their ideology changes by the day to match whatever their leader currently says, even if it is diametrically opposed to what they said last week?
    - JumpinJack_Cash 9mo ago
      > > not the Trump kids. Trump has a way of defying political gravity and repeatedly escaping the consequences that take down every other politician Look at Trump's interviews from the 80s and 90s. He was not always like this. If he learned his ways, others also can
      - senordevnyc 9mo ago

acdha 9mo ago

Exactly: there was a brief moment when it looked like Republicans were willing to hold him accountable after the January 6th insurrection but that faltered and they circled ranks, especially when Roberts signaled that Trump had the support of the Supreme Court to the extent that they were willing to concoct a new constitutional doctrine to shield him. A lot of people were hoping he’d just go away without them having to do anything difficult, but it’s clear that the next government has to reestablish the United States as a constitutional republic with the rule of law, even if it means hard things like trials for officials who abused their power. This kind of slide into authoritarianism isn’t an accident, and without consequences the people pushing it will keep trying.

hackingonempty 9mo ago
What makes you think he is not going to pardon every single person in his administration, every single loyal Republican?
- moogly 9mo ago
  The presidential pardon is clearly something that needs to either be heavily reined in or removed. How you do that I don't know, but turns out the US Constitution is something you can ignore, so... The entire system of checks and balances needs some rethinking because it's clearly not as "perfect" as we've been told over and over again.
- _DeadFred_ 9mo ago
  ex post facto can be ignored, and a new law of the land passed voiding pardons during 47s term. Because repealing pardons isn't weaponizing the person pardoned's behavior after the fact, it's against Presidential authority, so isn't ex post facto when it comes to the person who's behavior was legally determined to be criminal. Voiding a commutation for cause would be tougher and potential ex post facto, but not a pardon. We can void those without violating our ex post facto standards.
  - skissane 9mo ago
    What are the odds the current Supreme Court majority are going to uphold voiding Trump's pardons? Pretty to close to zero. The only way you could do this would be if you changed the SCOTUS composition through court packing or impeachment or constitutional amendment. If you wait for the conservative justices to retire and be replaced through death/resignation – by the time that happens, the issue of voiding pardons will likely be mostly irrelevant, because most of the pardonees will be already dead. And that's assuming the political fortune to be able to replace them with justices of a different persuasion, as opposed to just more of the same.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - _DeadFred_ 9mo ago
      We will see what comes out of this. Might be relevant https://www.fox5dc.com/news/dc-pipe-bomb-suspect-voted-trump-twice-qualifies-pardon-like-other-j6-defendants-lawyer-says https://www.fox5dc.com/news/dc-pipe-bomb-suspect-voted-trump...

rootusrootus 9mo ago

A lot of us are really, really hoping that there is something unique about Trump that cannot be easily reproduced by the next MAGA leader. That the movement will fragment into irrelevancy as the usual elites regain control.

throw0101c 9mo ago
This is what Wolff, who has written 3-4 biographical books on Trump, thinks: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wolff_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wolff_(journalist) He used the term suis generic in a (PBS?) interview to describe Trump: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis
- rootusrootus 9mo ago
  It may be that I'm a naive optimist, but I agree with him. When I look at who the hard core believers envision as the next torch-bearer, none of them have what it takes. Not Vance, not Rubio (Rubio! Suddenly he is 'strong'?? When was that ever a widely held opinion??), not the Trump kids. Trump has a way of defying political gravity and repeatedly escaping the consequences that take down every other politician. In this case the liberal consensus that it's a cult may not be that far from the truth -- maybe that's a loaded term, but how else do you describe a group of supporters whose faith is so strong that their ideology changes by the day to match whatever their leader currently says, even if it is diametrically opposed to what they said last week?
  - JumpinJack_Cash 9mo ago
    > > not the Trump kids. Trump has a way of defying political gravity and repeatedly escaping the consequences that take down every other politician Look at Trump's interviews from the 80s and 90s. He was not always like this. If he learned his ways, others also can
    - senordevnyc 9mo ago