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This is silly and not at all new. I believe most crops require fertilizer and until very recently in human history it was either decomposing trash or some form

This is silly and not at all new. I believe most crops require fertilizer and until very recently in human history it was either decomposing trash or some form of manure. Regardless they both contain nutrients that can be used to feed and grow other things...the whole "circle of life" and what have you!

aashay 14y ago
I'm confused. The article makes no mention of crops nor fertilizer. It discusses the unsanitary conditions at a seafood exporter, specifically the unsafe water that's used to create the ice used for packing shrimp, and a tilapia farm that feeds its fish with manure that could be "contaminated with microbes like salmonella."
greenyoda 14y ago
The article is about fish and shrimp that are fed animal feces. Fish and shrimp are not crops (plants grown for food[1]), they're livestock (animals grown for food[2]). "The manure the Chinese use to feed fish is frequently contaminated with microbes like salmonella..." "... packs shrimp headed for the U.S. in dirty plastic tubs. He covers them in ice made with tap water that the Vietnamese Health Ministry says should be boiled before drinking because of the risk of contamination with bacteria" Beef contaminated with even small quantities of feces would not pass USDA inspection, so how could shrimp grown in pig feces be considered safe? (Yes, the shrimp are grown in water that has pig feces in it; there's no other way to get a shrimp to eat something.) That article doesn't sound in the least bit silly to me. It's saying that a large fraction of our seafood supply is dangerously contaminated with bacteria. Would you eat a shrimp that accidentally fell in your toilet and got rinsed off with water? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock
- salmonellaeater 14y ago
  I am not an expert on food safety, but I believe the stricter standard for beef is because people often eat it rare. The bacteria in the shrimp is not a big deal if you cook it. There are many meats that you NEVER eat undercooked (chicken and pork among others); why not shrimp?
  - greenyoda 14y ago
    As far as I know, chicken contaminated with salmonella wouldn't pass USDA inspection either. While chicken should never be eaten when it's undercooked, it's quite easy for that to accidentally happen (the outside of a piece of chicken may be cooked completely, but the inside is undercooked). Not to mention that raw chicken that has bacteria on it can contaminate preparation surfaces in your kitchen, spreading the bacteria around.
- DanBC 14y ago
  In a world where no-one uses excrement as food: One other source of contamination is runoff from local crop fields that use raw manure. I agree gently with SamonellaEater. Food is not sterile, and some foods need to be carefully prepared, or the eater needs to be aware of and consent to the risks. But still, I'd like it if people could start with clean food and keep it that way, rather than start with something covered in fresh poo.
DanBC 14y ago
Intensive agriculture produces too much manure. Pig manure is high in nitrogen, but smells really bad. It's only relatively recently (mid 1980s)[1] that techniques of sub-surface manure spreading were developed. These techniques are important not just for reducing smell, but also for reducing run off. Too much manure, and environmental protection laws were causing a problem in some EU countries with "slurry lakes" and "manure mountains". Some regions were deemed to be nitrate vulnerable zones, and thus not suitable for too much manure.[2] > until very recently in human history it was either decomposing trash Untreated waste was probably the source of the 2001 Foot and Mouth outbreak in the UK. This cost the UK £8bn.[3] > The consensus today is that the FMD virus came from infected or contaminated meat that was part of the garbage being fed to pigs at Burnside Farm in Heddon-on-the-wall. The garbage had not been properly heat-sterilized and the virus had thus been allowed to infect the pigs. Animal manures can carry a number of pathogens. E. coli, Salmonella, Campylobacter, Yersinia, Cryptosporidium, Giardia, etc. Some of these kill people, so it's not trivial upset stomachs. Well rotted, or heat treated, manure should be safe. I'm pleased that regulatory bodies are taking this seriously. (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ynCJrnxolsUC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=holland+manure+mountain&source=bl&ots=FJypBbH5W-&sig=0CEuCYctDBMWV-AU72uuu8UJZpQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=g7x8UJbeC-Oe0QXlooHwAg&ved=0CHUQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=holland%20manure%20mountain&f=false http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ynCJrnxolsUC&pg=PA30&...) [2] (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387466/Farmers-warn-Beckett-over-EU-manure-mountains.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387466/Farmers-warn-...) [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_United_Kingdom_foot-and-mouth_outbreak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_United_Kingdom_foot-and-mo...)
yread 14y ago
Plenty of fresh water fish (carps in this case) are grown in ponds to which they add cow or pig manure. I guess it is to increase the amount of food for the fish as microbes can feed on it and invertebrae can feed on the microbes. They have been doing it like this since 1500s.

aashay 14y ago

I'm confused. The article makes no mention of crops nor fertilizer. It discusses the unsanitary conditions at a seafood exporter, specifically the unsafe water that's used to create the ice used for packing shrimp, and a tilapia farm that feeds its fish with manure that could be "contaminated with microbes like salmonella."

greenyoda 14y ago

The article is about fish and shrimp that are fed animal feces. Fish and shrimp are not crops (plants grown for food[1]), they're livestock (animals grown for food[2]). "The manure the Chinese use to feed fish is frequently contaminated with microbes like salmonella..." "... packs shrimp headed for the U.S. in dirty plastic tubs. He covers them in ice made with tap water that the Vietnamese Health Ministry says should be boiled before drinking because of the risk of contamination with bacteria" Beef contaminated with even small quantities of feces would not pass USDA inspection, so how could shrimp grown in pig feces be considered safe? (Yes, the shrimp are grown in water that has pig feces in it; there's no other way to get a shrimp to eat something.) That article doesn't sound in the least bit silly to me. It's saying that a large fraction of our seafood supply is dangerously contaminated with bacteria. Would you eat a shrimp that accidentally fell in your toilet and got rinsed off with water? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock

salmonellaeater 14y ago
I am not an expert on food safety, but I believe the stricter standard for beef is because people often eat it rare. The bacteria in the shrimp is not a big deal if you cook it. There are many meats that you NEVER eat undercooked (chicken and pork among others); why not shrimp?
- greenyoda 14y ago
  As far as I know, chicken contaminated with salmonella wouldn't pass USDA inspection either. While chicken should never be eaten when it's undercooked, it's quite easy for that to accidentally happen (the outside of a piece of chicken may be cooked completely, but the inside is undercooked). Not to mention that raw chicken that has bacteria on it can contaminate preparation surfaces in your kitchen, spreading the bacteria around.
DanBC 14y ago
In a world where no-one uses excrement as food: One other source of contamination is runoff from local crop fields that use raw manure. I agree gently with SamonellaEater. Food is not sterile, and some foods need to be carefully prepared, or the eater needs to be aware of and consent to the risks. But still, I'd like it if people could start with clean food and keep it that way, rather than start with something covered in fresh poo.

DanBC 14y ago

Intensive agriculture produces too much manure. Pig manure is high in nitrogen, but smells really bad. It's only relatively recently (mid 1980s)[1] that techniques of sub-surface manure spreading were developed. These techniques are important not just for reducing smell, but also for reducing run off. Too much manure, and environmental protection laws were causing a problem in some EU countries with "slurry lakes" and "manure mountains". Some regions were deemed to be nitrate vulnerable zones, and thus not suitable for too much manure.[2] > until very recently in human history it was either decomposing trash Untreated waste was probably the source of the 2001 Foot and Mouth outbreak in the UK. This cost the UK £8bn.[3] > The consensus today is that the FMD virus came from infected or contaminated meat that was part of the garbage being fed to pigs at Burnside Farm in Heddon-on-the-wall. The garbage had not been properly heat-sterilized and the virus had thus been allowed to infect the pigs. Animal manures can carry a number of pathogens. E. coli, Salmonella, Campylobacter, Yersinia, Cryptosporidium, Giardia, etc. Some of these kill people, so it's not trivial upset stomachs. Well rotted, or heat treated, manure should be safe. I'm pleased that regulatory bodies are taking this seriously. (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ynCJrnxolsUC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=holland+manure+mountain&source=bl&ots=FJypBbH5W-&sig=0CEuCYctDBMWV-AU72uuu8UJZpQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=g7x8UJbeC-Oe0QXlooHwAg&ved=0CHUQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=holland%20manure%20mountain&f=false http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ynCJrnxolsUC&pg=PA30&...) [2] (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387466/Farmers-warn-Beckett-over-EU-manure-mountains.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387466/Farmers-warn-...) [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_United_Kingdom_foot-and-mouth_outbreak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_United_Kingdom_foot-and-mo...)

yread 14y ago

Plenty of fresh water fish (carps in this case) are grown in ponds to which they add cow or pig manure. I guess it is to increase the amount of food for the fish as microbes can feed on it and invertebrae can feed on the microbes. They have been doing it like this since 1500s.