8 ms·

Sinclair C5

89 points by jszymborski 10mo ago

leke 10mo ago
Way ahead of its time. Some kind of rain cover and maybe flip the wheel combination around and it would make a sweet ev for the bike lanes.
- UncleSlacky 10mo ago
  There was a rain cover available, but it was a little...basic: https://95octane.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/sinclair_c5_3.jpg https://95octane.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/sinclair_c5_...
ikidd 10mo ago
>The driver sits in a recumbent position in an open cockpit, steering via a handlebar that is located under the knees. A power switch and front and rear brake levers are positioned on the handlebar. As a supplement to or replacement for electric power, the C5 can also be propelled via bicycle-style pedals located at the front of the cockpit. The maximum speed of an unmodified C5 is 15 miles per hour (24 km/h). At the rear of the vehicle is a small luggage compartment with a capacity of 28 litres (1 cu ft).[5] As the C5 does not have a reverse gear, reversing direction is done by getting out, picking up the front end and turning it around by hand. Well, hard to believe this was a flop.
- bluebarbet 10mo ago
  Presumably this is sarcasm but the C5 as described seems basically to be an electric recumbent cargo bike. That is, a vehicle that is fairly common today in big northern European cities, used for deliveries and sometimes even family transport.
  - thmsths 10mo ago
    The C5 seems like a pretty good deal: £399 (equivalent to £1247 today according to the BoE inflation calculator) for an electric trike with storage made in the UK. In contrast, finding a made in china cargo bike for that price seems impossible.
- thomassmith65 10mo ago
  It was the 1980s. People wanted to see products that looked like Star Wars props. https://www.carrozzieri-italiani.com/listing/italdesign-machimoto https://www.carrozzieri-italiani.com/listing/italdesign-mach...
- stefan_ 10mo ago
  > The maximum legal speed of the vehicle would be limited to only 15 miles per hour (24 km/h); it could not weigh any more than 60 kilograms (130 lb), including the battery; and its motor could not be rated at any more than 250 watts. It's interesting that these are still essentially the regulations for e-bikes in the EU today, I guess slightly relaxed (25km/h, 250W average only but can peak higher).
esperent 10mo ago
Looking at the photos and trying to understand how a person would comfortably drive it, I figured I must be missing something. So I looked up photos with a person inside and no, it really is that bad [0]. Pure form over function. Uncomfortable, yes. That's bad enough. But you hands are far back under your center of gravity. Any crash over a few km/hr is going to result in a faceplant because there's no way you'll bring your hands forward fast enough. Top speed of 24km/hr is enough to cause serious... death by head trauma. [0] https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/tt13th.jpg https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/g...
- appplication 10mo ago
  C5, named after the vertebra most likely to snap in a low speed collision with a moderate caused pothole.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- riffraff 10mo ago
  It's a recumbent trike, this sort of design seems to still exist today, so presumably it works somehow. https://www.rad-innovations.com/blog-our-news/about-recumbent-trikes https://www.rad-innovations.com/blog-our-news/about-recumben...
  - pjmlp 10mo ago
    Quite common to spot them in Germany or Netherlands.
  - esperent 10mo ago
    Just because they're niche popular doesn't mean they're a good idea. That said the position of the people on those trikes doesn't look nearly as bad as the C5. I have occasionally seen continental European tourists on those in Ireland. They struck me as a really bad idea for another reason. They're very low to the ground, which is probably good for aerodynamics but terrible for visibility for people in trucks, busses etc. There's no way I would cycle one on any normal road. Some people do have a small flag sticking up but I don't think that's enough.
3ple_alpha 10mo ago
Execution could have been a bit better but ultimately it's really hard to make electric vehicles with 1980s battery technology. Just about the only successful EV of the era was the golf cart and that's very niche. Electric moped was right idea but some 30 years ahead of its time.
- nospice 10mo ago
  Probably also the wrong country. I can imagine something like C5 taking off in the SF Bay Area. In the UK, you have something like 160 rainy days a year. People bike over there, but this somehow feels worse.
- eterm 10mo ago
  There was one much more successful EV, although it too was niche: The UK had "perhaps 40,000 milk floats" in the 1970s and 1980s before supermarkets took over as primary milk distributors. ( https://zavanak.com/transport-topics/british-electric-cv-history/ev-history-1950-to-1990/the-1970s/ https://zavanak.com/transport-topics/british-electric-cv-his... )
  - dboreham 10mo ago
    When I was a kid in Edinburgh no milk was delivered by ICE vehicle. It was either electric or horse. Also Sean Connery's first job..
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- nickcw 10mo ago
  The Sinclair C5 battery charger and battery was ahead of its time. I remember my Dad (who was something of a lead acid battery nerd) being very excited about it. The battery in the C5 was designed to be run to 0% charge which would kill most lead acid batteries in no time, but if I remember rightly the charger would recover them by putting quite high voltages across them to de-sulphate them. Or something like that (not a lead acid battery nerd :-).
- 10mo ago
aaronrobinson 10mo ago
This is the same guy that created the ZX81 (that I learned to code on) and the ZX Spectrum. He changed my life.
- dboreham 10mo ago
  He hired the people who created those things.
  - aaronrobinson 10mo ago
    What a strange response.
WillAdams 10mo ago
Wasn't it possible to store these by standing them on end?
Angostura 10mo ago
If I recall correctly they did did one niche application. Some people used them to trundle up and down the decks of oil tankers (a bicycle would seem better to me).
- chihuahua 10mo ago
  Given that there are no hills to climb on an oil tanker, and the distances involved are a few hundred meters at a time (at most), a bicycle seems so much better, cheaper, simpler, doesn't need charging, easier to fix.
bitwize 10mo ago
Sir Clive's Dymaxion Car. Doomed to similar failure. I love it for that reason alone.
- woleium 10mo ago
  Yes! the weird Buckminster designed vehicle which had the driver so far ahead if the front axle it was unnerving to drive
tim333 10mo ago
It's not far off the speed and range of my ebike which works well as transport in London. I wouldn't want to be that low down visibility wise though. On the ebike my head is a little higher than if I were standing which works quite well.
ofrzeta 10mo ago
see also this (it also mentions the C5 but focuses on pedal-driven velomobiles) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile
robinmacharg 10mo ago
Spitting Image nailed the mentioned criticisms back in the day: https://youtu.be/YLRTDy3Pvhw?si=UpBb9VBvSTcCjEEF https://youtu.be/YLRTDy3Pvhw?si=UpBb9VBvSTcCjEEF
brohee 10mo ago
It's a collectible but the remaining ones can likely be improved very much with modern eBike parts, lighter and more powerful motor and batteries...
- chihuahua 10mo ago
  However, 3 wheelers quickly reach their limitations in turns, since you can't lean to balance. So making a C5 go much faster than its original top speed could be risky.
  - lukevp 10mo ago
    Could the car lean if it had electric suspension? Is this a fundamental limitation of a 3 wheeler with 2 in the back or is it just difficult to achieve?
    - Someone 10mo ago
      It certainly could. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_(automotive_company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_(automotive_company). Got raving reviews from testers “On BBC's Top Gear programme in 2002, Jeremy Clarkson said, "I have to say, absolute hand on heart, I've never had so much fun in a car, really and truthfully, and I don't think I'd ever tire of it."” There’s an electric two-seater now. Around €12k
  - pmyteh 10mo ago
    I don't think the speed would be an enormous problem; the legal (powered) speed limit for e-bikes in the UK is essentially the same as when the C5 was new, at 25km/h. So as long as you stick with a stock EU/UK standard controller you should be fine. And you'd get a fantastic amount more grunt uphill and a longer range with a modern battery and motor.
nickcw 10mo ago
The C5 really was a marvel of design for 1985. Sinclair really went all in on it. - Polypropylene injection-molded bodywork (largest of its kind in 1985) - Lotus-designed suspension and handling geometry - Electric motor based on a modified torpedo cooling fan design - Handlebar-mounted electronics with LED range and load indicators - Custom deep-cycle lead-acid battery technology with 'smart' charging - Toothed-belt drive system for quiet operation It really was like seeing a bit of design from the future. Commercially a failure, alas.
robrain 10mo ago
As a child in the 80s I was exceedingly nerdy. My loving and generous parents did nothing to discourage that. Indeed they encouraged my nascent interest in computers by regularly updating my ZX computers (80->81->Spectrum->48K etc.) and then Acorn computers. All gratefully received. But then I was offered a C5 as a potential Christmas gift. "It's a Sinclair, you like those" was the approximate reasoning. But even I had to draw the line. There's only so much bullying one person can take. I was used to being laughed at for my fashion choices, my social awkwardness and my lack of sporting prowess. But a C5 would have been the final nail in the coffin. Ungrateful? Certainly. But I think I made the right choice.
- disjsosncjw 10mo ago
  [dead]
- alexfoo 10mo ago
  > As a child in the 80s I was exceedingly nerdy. My loving and generous parents did nothing to discourage that. Indeed they encouraged my nascent interest in computers by regularly updating my ZX computers (80->81->Spectrum->48K etc.) and then Acorn computers. All gratefully received. Yeah, I reminisced a bit in the thread about his death 5 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28564456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28564456 I did also get to play around in a C5 that they had at a secondary school that my father was teaching at (either Bassingbourn Village College or Collenswood School in Stevenage), must have been some time in the late 80s. > There's only so much bullying one person can take. I was used to being laughed at for my fashion choices, my social awkwardness and my lack of sporting prowess. School in the UK in the late 80s was brutal.
  - jamiecurle 10mo ago
    That cane was no fun. It was around for one year when I was in juniors before it got banned. I can remember as clear as the day at the start of September us new boys were taken into the toilet by the headmaster (lovely guy actually) and given a demonstration of what waited for us should we mis-behave. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was in the charts and it was a perfect experience of 1980s english schooling.
igrunert 10mo ago
If you're in Denver, Colorado you can see one in-person at The Forney Museum of Transportation.
parkersweb 10mo ago
Last year they celebrated the 40th anniversary with a group ride through Cambridge city centre: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98jr0145rgo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98jr0145rgo
butz 10mo ago
Time to watch Micro Men (2009) one more time.
- Lio 10mo ago
  Just in case you want to: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM&pp=ygUJTWljcm8gbWVu https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM&pp=ygUJTWljcm8gbWV...
Lio 10mo ago
My school got given one and the science teacher swapped the motorcycle battery for a car battery. It was great going around the playground.
MontyCarloHall 10mo ago
Bizarre; this was originally posted 5 days ago (as evidenced by clicking on the poster's submission history [0]), but timestamps on the submission and on comments throughout the post show 11 hours ago. @dang, is this a bug in HN software? I was feeling some serious déjà vu scrolling seeing this and scrolling through the comments. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=jszymborski https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=jszymborski
- pansa2 10mo ago
  Second-chance pool https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308
  - qingcharles 10mo ago
    Maybe it's time we had some sort of flag next to the post headline as this question comes up every single time a post gets a second life.
    - MontyCarloHall 9mo ago
      Agreed! I knew about the second chance pool but didn't realize it reset all the timestamps.
oniony 10mo ago
I went to a general auction in Croydon, UK in the 1990s with my parents. One of the lots was an old C5. It sold for £11. I still regret not pushing my parents to bid for it.
CaesarA 10mo ago
I once had a dream that this thing was the subject of a Top Gear episode and the three were given one each and they were tasked with modifying them in preparation for a race.

89 points by jszymborski 10mo ago

leke 10mo ago

Way ahead of its time. Some kind of rain cover and maybe flip the wheel combination around and it would make a sweet ev for the bike lanes.

UncleSlacky 10mo ago
There was a rain cover available, but it was a little...basic: https://95octane.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/sinclair_c5_3.jpg https://95octane.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/sinclair_c5_...

ikidd 10mo ago

>The driver sits in a recumbent position in an open cockpit, steering via a handlebar that is located under the knees. A power switch and front and rear brake levers are positioned on the handlebar. As a supplement to or replacement for electric power, the C5 can also be propelled via bicycle-style pedals located at the front of the cockpit. The maximum speed of an unmodified C5 is 15 miles per hour (24 km/h). At the rear of the vehicle is a small luggage compartment with a capacity of 28 litres (1 cu ft).[5] As the C5 does not have a reverse gear, reversing direction is done by getting out, picking up the front end and turning it around by hand. Well, hard to believe this was a flop.

bluebarbet 10mo ago
Presumably this is sarcasm but the C5 as described seems basically to be an electric recumbent cargo bike. That is, a vehicle that is fairly common today in big northern European cities, used for deliveries and sometimes even family transport.
- thmsths 10mo ago
  The C5 seems like a pretty good deal: £399 (equivalent to £1247 today according to the BoE inflation calculator) for an electric trike with storage made in the UK. In contrast, finding a made in china cargo bike for that price seems impossible.
thomassmith65 10mo ago
It was the 1980s. People wanted to see products that looked like Star Wars props. https://www.carrozzieri-italiani.com/listing/italdesign-machimoto https://www.carrozzieri-italiani.com/listing/italdesign-mach...
stefan_ 10mo ago
> The maximum legal speed of the vehicle would be limited to only 15 miles per hour (24 km/h); it could not weigh any more than 60 kilograms (130 lb), including the battery; and its motor could not be rated at any more than 250 watts. It's interesting that these are still essentially the regulations for e-bikes in the EU today, I guess slightly relaxed (25km/h, 250W average only but can peak higher).

esperent 10mo ago

Looking at the photos and trying to understand how a person would comfortably drive it, I figured I must be missing something. So I looked up photos with a person inside and no, it really is that bad [0]. Pure form over function. Uncomfortable, yes. That's bad enough. But you hands are far back under your center of gravity. Any crash over a few km/hr is going to result in a faceplant because there's no way you'll bring your hands forward fast enough. Top speed of 24km/hr is enough to cause serious... death by head trauma. [0] https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/tt13th.jpg https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/g...

appplication 10mo ago
C5, named after the vertebra most likely to snap in a low speed collision with a moderate caused pothole.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
riffraff 10mo ago
It's a recumbent trike, this sort of design seems to still exist today, so presumably it works somehow. https://www.rad-innovations.com/blog-our-news/about-recumbent-trikes https://www.rad-innovations.com/blog-our-news/about-recumben...
- pjmlp 10mo ago
  Quite common to spot them in Germany or Netherlands.
- esperent 10mo ago
  Just because they're niche popular doesn't mean they're a good idea. That said the position of the people on those trikes doesn't look nearly as bad as the C5. I have occasionally seen continental European tourists on those in Ireland. They struck me as a really bad idea for another reason. They're very low to the ground, which is probably good for aerodynamics but terrible for visibility for people in trucks, busses etc. There's no way I would cycle one on any normal road. Some people do have a small flag sticking up but I don't think that's enough.

3ple_alpha 10mo ago

Execution could have been a bit better but ultimately it's really hard to make electric vehicles with 1980s battery technology. Just about the only successful EV of the era was the golf cart and that's very niche. Electric moped was right idea but some 30 years ahead of its time.

nospice 10mo ago
Probably also the wrong country. I can imagine something like C5 taking off in the SF Bay Area. In the UK, you have something like 160 rainy days a year. People bike over there, but this somehow feels worse.
eterm 10mo ago
There was one much more successful EV, although it too was niche: The UK had "perhaps 40,000 milk floats" in the 1970s and 1980s before supermarkets took over as primary milk distributors. ( https://zavanak.com/transport-topics/british-electric-cv-history/ev-history-1950-to-1990/the-1970s/ https://zavanak.com/transport-topics/british-electric-cv-his... )
- dboreham 10mo ago
  When I was a kid in Edinburgh no milk was delivered by ICE vehicle. It was either electric or horse. Also Sean Connery's first job..
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
nickcw 10mo ago
The Sinclair C5 battery charger and battery was ahead of its time. I remember my Dad (who was something of a lead acid battery nerd) being very excited about it. The battery in the C5 was designed to be run to 0% charge which would kill most lead acid batteries in no time, but if I remember rightly the charger would recover them by putting quite high voltages across them to de-sulphate them. Or something like that (not a lead acid battery nerd :-).
10mo ago

aaronrobinson 10mo ago

This is the same guy that created the ZX81 (that I learned to code on) and the ZX Spectrum. He changed my life.

dboreham 10mo ago
He hired the people who created those things.
- aaronrobinson 10mo ago
  What a strange response.

WillAdams 10mo ago

Wasn't it possible to store these by standing them on end?

Angostura 10mo ago

If I recall correctly they did did one niche application. Some people used them to trundle up and down the decks of oil tankers (a bicycle would seem better to me).

chihuahua 10mo ago
Given that there are no hills to climb on an oil tanker, and the distances involved are a few hundred meters at a time (at most), a bicycle seems so much better, cheaper, simpler, doesn't need charging, easier to fix.

bitwize 10mo ago

Sir Clive's Dymaxion Car. Doomed to similar failure. I love it for that reason alone.

woleium 10mo ago
Yes! the weird Buckminster designed vehicle which had the driver so far ahead if the front axle it was unnerving to drive

tim333 10mo ago

It's not far off the speed and range of my ebike which works well as transport in London. I wouldn't want to be that low down visibility wise though. On the ebike my head is a little higher than if I were standing which works quite well.

ofrzeta 10mo ago

see also this (it also mentions the C5 but focuses on pedal-driven velomobiles) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile

robinmacharg 10mo ago

Spitting Image nailed the mentioned criticisms back in the day: https://youtu.be/YLRTDy3Pvhw?si=UpBb9VBvSTcCjEEF https://youtu.be/YLRTDy3Pvhw?si=UpBb9VBvSTcCjEEF

brohee 10mo ago

It's a collectible but the remaining ones can likely be improved very much with modern eBike parts, lighter and more powerful motor and batteries...

chihuahua 10mo ago
However, 3 wheelers quickly reach their limitations in turns, since you can't lean to balance. So making a C5 go much faster than its original top speed could be risky.
- lukevp 10mo ago
  Could the car lean if it had electric suspension? Is this a fundamental limitation of a 3 wheeler with 2 in the back or is it just difficult to achieve?
  - Someone 10mo ago
    It certainly could. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_(automotive_company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_(automotive_company). Got raving reviews from testers “On BBC's Top Gear programme in 2002, Jeremy Clarkson said, "I have to say, absolute hand on heart, I've never had so much fun in a car, really and truthfully, and I don't think I'd ever tire of it."” There’s an electric two-seater now. Around €12k
- pmyteh 10mo ago
  I don't think the speed would be an enormous problem; the legal (powered) speed limit for e-bikes in the UK is essentially the same as when the C5 was new, at 25km/h. So as long as you stick with a stock EU/UK standard controller you should be fine. And you'd get a fantastic amount more grunt uphill and a longer range with a modern battery and motor.

nickcw 10mo ago

The C5 really was a marvel of design for 1985. Sinclair really went all in on it. - Polypropylene injection-molded bodywork (largest of its kind in 1985) - Lotus-designed suspension and handling geometry - Electric motor based on a modified torpedo cooling fan design - Handlebar-mounted electronics with LED range and load indicators - Custom deep-cycle lead-acid battery technology with 'smart' charging - Toothed-belt drive system for quiet operation It really was like seeing a bit of design from the future. Commercially a failure, alas.

robrain 10mo ago

As a child in the 80s I was exceedingly nerdy. My loving and generous parents did nothing to discourage that. Indeed they encouraged my nascent interest in computers by regularly updating my ZX computers (80->81->Spectrum->48K etc.) and then Acorn computers. All gratefully received. But then I was offered a C5 as a potential Christmas gift. "It's a Sinclair, you like those" was the approximate reasoning. But even I had to draw the line. There's only so much bullying one person can take. I was used to being laughed at for my fashion choices, my social awkwardness and my lack of sporting prowess. But a C5 would have been the final nail in the coffin. Ungrateful? Certainly. But I think I made the right choice.

disjsosncjw 10mo ago
[dead]
alexfoo 10mo ago
> As a child in the 80s I was exceedingly nerdy. My loving and generous parents did nothing to discourage that. Indeed they encouraged my nascent interest in computers by regularly updating my ZX computers (80->81->Spectrum->48K etc.) and then Acorn computers. All gratefully received. Yeah, I reminisced a bit in the thread about his death 5 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28564456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28564456 I did also get to play around in a C5 that they had at a secondary school that my father was teaching at (either Bassingbourn Village College or Collenswood School in Stevenage), must have been some time in the late 80s. > There's only so much bullying one person can take. I was used to being laughed at for my fashion choices, my social awkwardness and my lack of sporting prowess. School in the UK in the late 80s was brutal.
- jamiecurle 10mo ago
  That cane was no fun. It was around for one year when I was in juniors before it got banned. I can remember as clear as the day at the start of September us new boys were taken into the toilet by the headmaster (lovely guy actually) and given a demonstration of what waited for us should we mis-behave. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was in the charts and it was a perfect experience of 1980s english schooling.

igrunert 10mo ago

If you're in Denver, Colorado you can see one in-person at The Forney Museum of Transportation.

parkersweb 10mo ago

Last year they celebrated the 40th anniversary with a group ride through Cambridge city centre: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98jr0145rgo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98jr0145rgo

butz 10mo ago

Time to watch Micro Men (2009) one more time.

Lio 10mo ago
Just in case you want to: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM&pp=ygUJTWljcm8gbWVu https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM&pp=ygUJTWljcm8gbWV...

Lio 10mo ago

My school got given one and the science teacher swapped the motorcycle battery for a car battery. It was great going around the playground.

MontyCarloHall 10mo ago

Bizarre; this was originally posted 5 days ago (as evidenced by clicking on the poster's submission history [0]), but timestamps on the submission and on comments throughout the post show 11 hours ago. @dang, is this a bug in HN software? I was feeling some serious déjà vu scrolling seeing this and scrolling through the comments. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=jszymborski https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=jszymborski

pansa2 10mo ago
Second-chance pool https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308
- qingcharles 10mo ago
  Maybe it's time we had some sort of flag next to the post headline as this question comes up every single time a post gets a second life.
  - MontyCarloHall 9mo ago
    Agreed! I knew about the second chance pool but didn't realize it reset all the timestamps.

oniony 10mo ago

I went to a general auction in Croydon, UK in the 1990s with my parents. One of the lots was an old C5. It sold for £11. I still regret not pushing my parents to bid for it.

CaesarA 10mo ago

I once had a dream that this thing was the subject of a Top Gear episode and the three were given one each and they were tasked with modifying them in preparation for a race.