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> Honestly I can't comprehend Americans thinking their constitution is some holy grail There exists a concept of "American exceptionalism" [1], which describes

by palata 10mo ago

> Honestly I can't comprehend Americans thinking their constitution is some holy grail There exists a concept of "American exceptionalism" [1], which describes this popular belief that the US are superior. It also probably goes with the fact that it is a very big country sharing one culture, and it is easy to not spend too much time looking at what other countries are doing. > presidential democracies where presidents are elected by popular vote are a disaster I would like to add France to the examples supporting your case: in the first round, Macron got less than 20% of the votes, and a non-negligible part of those was already trying to be "efficient". As in, the people would have voted for someone else, but they voted for Macron because it seemed more likely that he could win against Le Pen, the far-right candidate. This means that less than 20% of the people (those who voted of course) wanted Macron. On his first day, more than 80% didn't want him. Still he behaves like if the French people wanted him. > by having the parliament elect the president An example I like is Switzerland: they don't have a president at all. They elect their parliament, and the parliament elects the Federal Council made of 7 people from the main parties. What this means is that the executive power is a consensus by construction, and most of the people is represented (because the Federal Council is made of the major parties, which represent the majority of the people and go from left to right). Feeling represented is very important: when the people does not feel represented, they take out to the street and protest. I don't think it happens as much in the countries you described (Germany, Italy) or Switzerland. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

mcphage 10mo ago
> This means that less than 20% of the people (those who voted of course) wanted Macron. On his first day, more than 80% didn't want him. That’s not true. “I want someone else more than X” isn’t the same as “I don’t want X”. That’s the advantage of Approval voting and Ranked Choice voting—you can make those things clear.
- palata 10mo ago
  Not sure what this brings other than nitpicking. If you look at the situation in France, I think it's pretty damn obvious that the people don't feel represented by their government. My point was not to nitpick on the numbers, but rather to say that having a president elected by the people and having as much executive power as the president has in France doesn't seem to work really well. As opposed to countries that enforce a consensus.
JumpinJack_Cash 10mo ago
> > Still he behaves like if the French people wanted him. Well he's the closest to that benchmark no? You can hardly regulate how emboldened a person feels, especially after having obtained such a big result. He is the most liked person in France , as if you just take into consideration the raw number of people who like him and ignore those who dislike , his number would be higher than the everybody else. It's always like that with elections, once the polls are closed and the votes counted someone will have a mandate and a mandate is determined by number of preferences expressed. Those who stayed home or the raw number of "dislikes" doesn't count. A thing that would somewhat diminish the power of the elected person is an election where just 15-20% of the population who has the right to vote decided to cast their vote
- palata 10mo ago
  I think you missed my point. My point was that instead of having one person trying to "represent" the people, you can split that role.
  - JumpinJack_Cash 10mo ago
    it's the same! The Prime Minister would then be the person performing better than everybody else and would thus be emboldened
    - palata 10mo ago
      I gave examples where it's not like that. If you don't want to read them, I don't know what to say.
Freedom2 10mo ago
> It also probably goes with the fact that it is a very big country sharing one culture Some Americans, even here on HN, genuinely believe that different states have different cultures in the same way different countries in Europe have different cultures cultures.
- palata 10mo ago
  Sure, it's not incompatible. There is a European culture, it's just a question of granularity. And there are subcultures in countries (some countries are even divided between different languages). Still, Americans from everywhere in the US have this tendency to genuinely believe that the whole world believes the US are the best country in the world. That seems like a cultural trait in the US.

by palata 10mo ago

mcphage 10mo ago

> This means that less than 20% of the people (those who voted of course) wanted Macron. On his first day, more than 80% didn't want him. That’s not true. “I want someone else more than X” isn’t the same as “I don’t want X”. That’s the advantage of Approval voting and Ranked Choice voting—you can make those things clear.

palata 10mo ago
Not sure what this brings other than nitpicking. If you look at the situation in France, I think it's pretty damn obvious that the people don't feel represented by their government. My point was not to nitpick on the numbers, but rather to say that having a president elected by the people and having as much executive power as the president has in France doesn't seem to work really well. As opposed to countries that enforce a consensus.

JumpinJack_Cash 10mo ago

> > Still he behaves like if the French people wanted him. Well he's the closest to that benchmark no? You can hardly regulate how emboldened a person feels, especially after having obtained such a big result. He is the most liked person in France , as if you just take into consideration the raw number of people who like him and ignore those who dislike , his number would be higher than the everybody else. It's always like that with elections, once the polls are closed and the votes counted someone will have a mandate and a mandate is determined by number of preferences expressed. Those who stayed home or the raw number of "dislikes" doesn't count. A thing that would somewhat diminish the power of the elected person is an election where just 15-20% of the population who has the right to vote decided to cast their vote

palata 10mo ago
I think you missed my point. My point was that instead of having one person trying to "represent" the people, you can split that role.
- JumpinJack_Cash 10mo ago
  it's the same! The Prime Minister would then be the person performing better than everybody else and would thus be emboldened
  - palata 10mo ago
    I gave examples where it's not like that. If you don't want to read them, I don't know what to say.

Freedom2 10mo ago

> It also probably goes with the fact that it is a very big country sharing one culture Some Americans, even here on HN, genuinely believe that different states have different cultures in the same way different countries in Europe have different cultures cultures.

palata 10mo ago
Sure, it's not incompatible. There is a European culture, it's just a question of granularity. And there are subcultures in countries (some countries are even divided between different languages). Still, Americans from everywhere in the US have this tendency to genuinely believe that the whole world believes the US are the best country in the world. That seems like a cultural trait in the US.