5 ms·

That would be the absolute dream engineering brief. If I actually sit down and design that vehicle, it would have something like this. List, off the top of my h

That would be the absolute dream engineering brief. If I actually sit down and design that vehicle, it would have something like this. List, off the top of my head. 1. You keep the modern metallurgy and the crumple zones. You keep ABS and basic traction control because they are solved problems that save lives without needing cloud connectivity. 2. Instead of a 2000 USD proprietary touchscreen that will be obsolete in 3 years, the dashboard could be just a double DIN slot and a heavy-duty, universal tablet mount with a 100W USB-C PD port. The car provides the power and the speakers and my phone provides the maps and music. When the tech improves, you upgrade your phone, not your dashboard. 3. Nobs and buttons instead of touchscreens like VW has done recently, if my memory serves me right. The tragedy is that regulations in the EU and North America make this incredibly difficult to sell. The sane environmental stuff you mentioned has morphed into a requirement for deeply integrated electronic oversight. But I genuinely believe there is a massive, silent majority of drivers waiting for a car that promises nothing other than to start every morning and never ask for a software update.

helsinkiandrew 9mo ago
> The sane environmental stuff you mentioned has morphed into a requirement for deeply integrated electronic oversight Decent catalytic converters require an array of sensors, ECU, and ability to fine control the engine inputs to work - without them most large cities would become smog ridden hells.
- ramesh31 9mo ago
  This is why late 90s cars are objectively the greatest ever built. You had ECUs, cats, ABS, disc brakes, airbags, power steering, and conventional automatic transmissions. Everything that makes a modern car safe and reliable, but none of the high tech digital BS that has infused things nowadays.
  - dgacmu 9mo ago
    ESC (electronic stability control) didn't become common until about 2010 to 2015. It makes a really big difference for safety -- EU estimates are that it's saved more than 15,000 lives. Let's backport that one too. :)
    - Glawen 9mo ago
      It was available already on late 90s vehicles. That was the fix to solve Mercedes Class A failing Elk test: put ESP on all trims
    - wrigby 9mo ago
      My 2004 RX-8 had decently solid ESC, but it was a “high-end” vehicle at the time. It’s definitely something we want to keep in our idealized vehicle (but let’s also keep the “disable ESC so I can have fun” button)
      - 20after4 9mo ago
        I was going to make this exact comment. The RX-8 had excellent stability control. Saved my ass at least once going too fast around a 90 degree corner. It also behaved really well on icy roads. It was pretty incredible for a rear wheel drive sports car, especially impressive at the time compared to every other car on the road back then.
    - dizhn 9mo ago
      I bought my first real wheel drive car in 2014. Still have it. It's not a race car. About 170hp. It struggles at the smallest curves. Good thing it has traction control and esp. Except all the front wheel cars I had before, one even slightly more powerful and smaller, never needed any of that. Never ever buying a rwd again. (Enthusiast forums of the brand tell me I don't know how to drive RWD. Skill issue. :D)
      - jonasdegendt 9mo ago
        You should look into different tires perhaps.
  - formerly_proven 9mo ago
    In reality many 90s cars are phenomenal rust buckets due to issues in the adoption of water-based paints, cars which actually still have tangible amounts of steel in their panels are basically golden samples.
- ninalanyon 9mo ago
  The solution to city air pollution is a different vehicle with a different drive train: an EV. The C15 is a workhorse for farmers and craftsmen not for shopping trips and driving the family to visit granny on the other side of town.
  - writebetterc 9mo ago
    > The solution to city air pollution is a different vehicle with a different drive train: an EV. Priority list should basically be: 0. Bicycles 1. Metro 2. Buses 3. EVs (not counting emergency and service vehicles)
    - fwipsy 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - oakesm9 9mo ago
        We do have bicycle ambulance which carry a defibrillator [0] The 40 paramedics attend over 17,000 calls a year and the average response time is 6 minutes. [0] https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/calling-us/who-will-treat-you/single-responder/cycle-responder/ https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/calling-us/who-will-treat...
      - writebetterc 9mo ago
        > (not counting emergency and service vehicles) Just gotta read the last line too :P
        scott_w 9mo ago
        Cut him some slack, he might have been having a heart attack at the time and in need of one of those ambulances!
        Supernaut 9mo ago
        What do you mean, at a practical level, when you set out your "priority list" above? Are you referring to the use of congestion charges to discourage private motor vehicle use?
- maxerickson 9mo ago
  For gasoline engines, electronic fuel injection is far better than a carburetor, it isn't just the emissions systems. Sure, it's harder to work on. The trade off there is that you don't have to work on it.
  - hofen 9mo ago
    [flagged]
- pantalaimon 9mo ago
  If you have an electric vehicle you need none of that
  - everdrive 9mo ago
    And if people would make one that wasn't an iPad on wheels I'd be in line to buy.
    - wrigby 9mo ago
      This is my exact same sentiment. I’m cautiously excited about the upcoming Slate Pickup[1] - I can see it being my go-to if I leave NYC, but it still won’t hit like the XJ Cherokee I drove before I gave up cars for the city. 1: https://www.slate.auto/ https://www.slate.auto/
      - peatmoss 9mo ago
        I worry about the Slate truck being DOA with expiration of incentives for EVs. Someone please tell me I'm wrong, because if they do deliver as promised, I'll be excited to buy one. For me, I'm hoping it fills the mid-90s Isuzu Pup sized hole in my heart.
      - soared 9mo ago
        I like the idea of a slate but the truck bed just makes no sense at that size. I don’t understand why it’s not defaulted to another row of seats or hatchback, with the option to convert to truck. 5 ft bed without extension is kind of pointless as a bed, but huge as a trunk.
        everdrive 9mo ago
        That's effectively what it is, but reverse. You buy it as a truck, and can buy seats & cap and turn it into an SUV. I see it as the closest thing you can get to a kei truck in the US without importing. Relatively cheap, good payload capacity, (better than a lot of trucks out there) effectively unable to tow, 5-foot bed, which is the same or larger than most mid-size trucks, and a tiny form factor. It's certainly a niche vehicle, but it looks exciting if it can fill you niche.
- Nextgrid 9mo ago
  There's no reason technology has to be user-hostile. You can still have an ECU and screens and everything. When it breaks the screen can be used to tell you exactly which sensor input is out of range. There's no reason parts need to be serialized and learning a new part can only be done once. You can build a modern vehicle that's still repairable.
  - Braxton1980 9mo ago
    Modules need to be programmed for your vehicle specs and country because there are different laws and functions. For example rear taillights are different in Europe vs the US. Another is that higher trims of my car have a rear climate zone which has a different fan and actuators for air flow that the module needs to know exist.
    - bri3d 9mo ago
      Sure, but the reasons programming requires proprietary software accessible only to the dealer via some kind of online access are depressing: laziness, greed, and crime. Making software that's usable by independent shops and consumers costs money, eliminates business lock-in to dealers, and boosts the gray/black market for broken or stolen parts, so the only reason manufacturers do it at all is when they are required to by regulation.
      - tmerc 9mo ago
        Calling bs. It takes more effort to implement proprietary protocols and codes in addition to the globally mandated obd2 protocol. You can extend obd2 with additional codes that could be read by a simple device. It costs money to run servers that check your license to read those proprietary codes. It's not laziness. The black market on stolen parts isn't affected by this. Catalytic converter are stolen and resold all the time and swapping one doesn't require anything more complex than a socket set and a new gasket (assuming the thief didn't use a cutting tool, but then you just weld). Cats also get sold for scrap, so not sure what the software lock is gonna do for that. Hellcat engines get swapped all the time. ECUs get flashed by the black market regardless of the software locks. But what we see this proprietary software get used for is blocking the ability to swap brake pads and block heated seats. So it's not crime, but I'll agree on greed.
- ambicapter 9mo ago
  What do the sensors do? There's not much you can change in the catalytic converter so I assume it's just reading temperature? So I assume it's changing the fuel/air combustion ratio according to the cat's temperature?
  - immibis 9mo ago
    Not a motorhead but IIRC a combustion with too little oxygen produces soot (pollution) and one with too much oxygen produces NOx pollution, with a sweet spot in the middle. The exhaust oxygen sensor allows the ECU to adjust the air/fuel mix to hit the minimum pollution spot, instead of estimating it. There might also be a catalyst temperature sensor or something. It's not a "whole bunch" of sensors, it's a few sensors and it's not some inscrutable magic, it's somethijg someone could replicate in open-source if they had equipment and time. We really need to get away from the mindset that proprietary stuff contains inscrutable magic. It's often worse quality than the open thing. However, it does have the right connections to be allowed to be put in a car that drives on the road.
- Animats 9mo ago
  Engine control alone can be self-contained. The Ford EEC IV of the 1980s had its program permanently etched into the Intel 8061 CPU, and was designed to last 30 years. It did. I finally sold off my 40 year old Ford Bronco, which was still running on the original engine and CPU.
HPsquared 9mo ago
Maybe Framework could get into the car business.
roland35 9mo ago
You should look into the slate truck! This is exactly what they are trying to do
- kaonwarb 9mo ago
  https://www.slate.auto https://www.slate.auto
everdrive 9mo ago
How about an option just to have one of those old Ford radios with the huge buttons you can push with gloves on? And maybe an aux-in?
- nandomrumber 9mo ago
  So long as it also plays cassettes. My first car had the mechanical radio buttons and cassette player, I think you even had to turn the cassette over when one side ended.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
jfengel 9mo ago
Incidentally, you're describing my 2020 Subaru Impreza. Under $20k for my dealer demo. I do wish it supported a later version of Android Auto so that I could run that via Bluetooth. (It does have regular Bluetooth but that's just audio.)
- crazysim 9mo ago
  Wireless Android Auto or Carplay generally use BT to setup but WiFi to send the bulk of the graphical data over. That said, there are adapters to make an existing Android Auto Wireless if you want it. I think some are sold on Amazon too so you could probably try and maybe return. I don't have any experience with them since I'm very happy with my car's built in wired Android Auto and the reliability of cabling but it is something you can try.
  - jfengel 9mo ago
    Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.
    - devilbunny 9mo ago
      I have one for my wife's car that has wired-only CarPlay. The dongle can do Android Auto as well. It has a bit of lag compared to wired or built-in wireless CarPlay (have used that in rentals) but it's not really an issue for usability. It was maybe $30.
- cuu508 9mo ago
  Were they sold with an option to have have no OEM infotainment? Just speakers and a phone mount?
  - jfengel 9mo ago
    I don't think it has any OEM infotainment. I think there is some kind of software in there but I've never looked at it. It's not intrusive.
hypercube33 9mo ago
We already had basically the solution you suggested with airplay/car play - USB charger with audio out that just is a display. when a phone isn't plugged in it shows super basic radio features like station and song name for AM and FM.
- 20after4 9mo ago
  Had it and now most manufacturers are abandoning that for some proprietary crap that's much worse and requires a subscription for navigation and music streaming.
ornornor 9mo ago
> Instead of a 2000 USD proprietary touchscreen that will be obsolete in 3 years, the dashboard could be just a double DIN slot and a heavy-duty, universal tablet mount with a 100W USB-C PD port. The car provides the power and the speakers and my phone provides the maps and music. When the tech improves, you upgrade your phone, not your dashboard. Dacia does that. The base sandero comes with speakers and Bluetooth. The rest is up to you, there is no screen no radio.
- kergonath 9mo ago
  I am happy with Car Play as a decent middle ground. It’s nice to have a large screen, and everything is still done on the phone and not on a shite computer whose components were cost-cut to an inch of their lives.
klum 9mo ago
I have a theory that these environmental regulations at least to some degree defeat themselves. They make engines more complicated, so more fragile and harder for an amateur (edit: or any professional who isn't their own brand repair shops) to service. They encourage smaller-block engines with turbos and compressors which makes the engine more short-lived. They produce stuff like throttle-hang and gear selection recommendations optimized for driving economy, not engine longevity (or driving experience, for that matter). On the whole, they seem to be contributing to this movement of taking power away from the end consumer and making your product more and more like a subscription (this goes further than the car industry, of course). I do realize that it's important to cut down on pollution! And maybe this kind of stuff has been studied... although I imagine it would be very hard to do accurately. Imagine if a car manufacturer would provide service guides, easily-accessible part diagrams and competitively priced spare parts. Imagine if they optimized for longevity and if the handbook that came with the car had more technical details than it had warnings about how doing any kind of maintenance yourself will result in a) your death and b) a voided warranty. That would be pretty nice.
- nandomrumber 9mo ago
  Did I hear right that some new vehicles are claiming 20,000km service intervals? I know I’ve seen 15,000 service intervals. This is the minimum to maintain the warranty for the first 3 / 5 / 7 seven years whatever. If you change the oil at every 5000k and never turn off a cold engine - all petrol engines have fuel wash down at ignition cut, but much worse when the engine is come - you should expect 500,000+ plus kilometres out of an engine barring any metallurgical problems or manufacturing defects. Petrol makes a poor lubricant for engines, and fucks engine oil. The less of it in engine oil the better. Modern engines and fully synthetic oils are way better than the their counterparts from my youth, but 15,000+ kilometres service intervals are less about what engines need and more about what the folks over in marketing need. Edit: I did see a second hand commercial diesel van recently that had met all service requirements for the warranty period, x number of years or 90,000 kilometres. This meant it had logged exactly two oil changes since new, and the third had just been done at 90,000. 90,000k on two oil changes. Wild.
schmuckonwheels 9mo ago
>the dashboard could be just a double DIN slot and a heavy-duty, universal tablet mount with a 100W USB-C PD port. The car provides the power and the speakers and my phone provides the maps and music. Legally mandated backup cameras make your idea DOA. In fact, nearly everything terrible about cars in the last decade can be traced to regulations in some way. Wondering why transmissions are insanely complicated and unreliable now? Manufacturers were forced to eek out an extra couple MPG due to continually tightening environmental regulations. Something has to give.
- MobiusHorizons 9mo ago
  > In fact, nearly everything terrible about cars in the last decade can be traced to regulations in some way. I think the reason we even need backup cameras now is that visibility is so poor on modern vehicles. I think that in turn is due to increasing the height of the bottom of the windows for better airbags. I’m sure it’s great in a crash, but visibility is also a safety concern. Not all of it is regulations though, but lot of common complaints.
- kalleboo 9mo ago
  >Legally mandated backup cameras make your idea DOA. Cheap cars without fancy entertainment systems put the backup camera screen in the rear-view mirror. You can get these kits for like $20 on aliexpress.
- AngryData 9mo ago
  A backup camera and screen only costs like $20 though, even buying it 3rd party. There is no requirement that it has to be in the center console, in fact I would think that is the worst possible place since it is the farthest spot possible away from your actual mirrors.
Braxton1980 9mo ago
I can unlock my doors with my phone and monitor the cars location with my phone with cloud connectivity. This isn't required and was offered as a 5 year free plan with optional paid extensions after How is this bad?
- yjftsjthsd-h 9mo ago
  Now the car company has a live feed of your location and the ability to unlock your car at will. That's probably fine unless they get hacked, at which point it abruptly becomes less fine. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35919133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35919133
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- tmerc 9mo ago
  They sell your location data, driving habits, etc. then the insurance company buys it and raises your rates. I declined it when I bought my Subaru and they registered my car to someone else's email address, giving someone else access to those features. That module is now on a shelf in my garage. I park in gear (manual) so remote start can launch my car into a wall. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-your-car-knows-about-you-and-opt-out-sharing-when-you-can https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-yo...
4MOAisgoodenuf 9mo ago
Please allow me to introduce you to the second gen Toyota Yaris
sokoloff 9mo ago
My understanding is that ABS in cars has surprisingly little effect on fatalities. It is a huge lifesaver when deployed to motorcycles, and a benefit to reducing non-fatal crashes, but not much for fatals in cars. (I agree it's a well-solved problem and the reduction in non-fatal crashes makes it worthwhile from a convenience standpoint alone.)

helsinkiandrew 9mo ago

> The sane environmental stuff you mentioned has morphed into a requirement for deeply integrated electronic oversight Decent catalytic converters require an array of sensors, ECU, and ability to fine control the engine inputs to work - without them most large cities would become smog ridden hells.

ramesh31 9mo ago
This is why late 90s cars are objectively the greatest ever built. You had ECUs, cats, ABS, disc brakes, airbags, power steering, and conventional automatic transmissions. Everything that makes a modern car safe and reliable, but none of the high tech digital BS that has infused things nowadays.
- dgacmu 9mo ago
  ESC (electronic stability control) didn't become common until about 2010 to 2015. It makes a really big difference for safety -- EU estimates are that it's saved more than 15,000 lives. Let's backport that one too. :)
  - Glawen 9mo ago
    It was available already on late 90s vehicles. That was the fix to solve Mercedes Class A failing Elk test: put ESP on all trims
  - wrigby 9mo ago
    My 2004 RX-8 had decently solid ESC, but it was a “high-end” vehicle at the time. It’s definitely something we want to keep in our idealized vehicle (but let’s also keep the “disable ESC so I can have fun” button)
    - 20after4 9mo ago
      I was going to make this exact comment. The RX-8 had excellent stability control. Saved my ass at least once going too fast around a 90 degree corner. It also behaved really well on icy roads. It was pretty incredible for a rear wheel drive sports car, especially impressive at the time compared to every other car on the road back then.
  - dizhn 9mo ago
    I bought my first real wheel drive car in 2014. Still have it. It's not a race car. About 170hp. It struggles at the smallest curves. Good thing it has traction control and esp. Except all the front wheel cars I had before, one even slightly more powerful and smaller, never needed any of that. Never ever buying a rwd again. (Enthusiast forums of the brand tell me I don't know how to drive RWD. Skill issue. :D)
    - jonasdegendt 9mo ago
      You should look into different tires perhaps.
- formerly_proven 9mo ago
  In reality many 90s cars are phenomenal rust buckets due to issues in the adoption of water-based paints, cars which actually still have tangible amounts of steel in their panels are basically golden samples.
ninalanyon 9mo ago
The solution to city air pollution is a different vehicle with a different drive train: an EV. The C15 is a workhorse for farmers and craftsmen not for shopping trips and driving the family to visit granny on the other side of town.
- writebetterc 9mo ago
  > The solution to city air pollution is a different vehicle with a different drive train: an EV. Priority list should basically be: 0. Bicycles 1. Metro 2. Buses 3. EVs (not counting emergency and service vehicles)
  - fwipsy 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - oakesm9 9mo ago
      We do have bicycle ambulance which carry a defibrillator [0] The 40 paramedics attend over 17,000 calls a year and the average response time is 6 minutes. [0] https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/calling-us/who-will-treat-you/single-responder/cycle-responder/ https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/calling-us/who-will-treat...
    - writebetterc 9mo ago
      > (not counting emergency and service vehicles) Just gotta read the last line too :P
      - scott_w 9mo ago
        Cut him some slack, he might have been having a heart attack at the time and in need of one of those ambulances!
      - Supernaut 9mo ago
        What do you mean, at a practical level, when you set out your "priority list" above? Are you referring to the use of congestion charges to discourage private motor vehicle use?
maxerickson 9mo ago
For gasoline engines, electronic fuel injection is far better than a carburetor, it isn't just the emissions systems. Sure, it's harder to work on. The trade off there is that you don't have to work on it.
- hofen 9mo ago
  [flagged]
pantalaimon 9mo ago
If you have an electric vehicle you need none of that
- everdrive 9mo ago
  And if people would make one that wasn't an iPad on wheels I'd be in line to buy.
  - wrigby 9mo ago
    This is my exact same sentiment. I’m cautiously excited about the upcoming Slate Pickup[1] - I can see it being my go-to if I leave NYC, but it still won’t hit like the XJ Cherokee I drove before I gave up cars for the city. 1: https://www.slate.auto/ https://www.slate.auto/
    - peatmoss 9mo ago
      I worry about the Slate truck being DOA with expiration of incentives for EVs. Someone please tell me I'm wrong, because if they do deliver as promised, I'll be excited to buy one. For me, I'm hoping it fills the mid-90s Isuzu Pup sized hole in my heart.
    - soared 9mo ago
      I like the idea of a slate but the truck bed just makes no sense at that size. I don’t understand why it’s not defaulted to another row of seats or hatchback, with the option to convert to truck. 5 ft bed without extension is kind of pointless as a bed, but huge as a trunk.
      - everdrive 9mo ago
        That's effectively what it is, but reverse. You buy it as a truck, and can buy seats & cap and turn it into an SUV. I see it as the closest thing you can get to a kei truck in the US without importing. Relatively cheap, good payload capacity, (better than a lot of trucks out there) effectively unable to tow, 5-foot bed, which is the same or larger than most mid-size trucks, and a tiny form factor. It's certainly a niche vehicle, but it looks exciting if it can fill you niche.
Nextgrid 9mo ago
There's no reason technology has to be user-hostile. You can still have an ECU and screens and everything. When it breaks the screen can be used to tell you exactly which sensor input is out of range. There's no reason parts need to be serialized and learning a new part can only be done once. You can build a modern vehicle that's still repairable.
- Braxton1980 9mo ago
  Modules need to be programmed for your vehicle specs and country because there are different laws and functions. For example rear taillights are different in Europe vs the US. Another is that higher trims of my car have a rear climate zone which has a different fan and actuators for air flow that the module needs to know exist.
  - bri3d 9mo ago
    Sure, but the reasons programming requires proprietary software accessible only to the dealer via some kind of online access are depressing: laziness, greed, and crime. Making software that's usable by independent shops and consumers costs money, eliminates business lock-in to dealers, and boosts the gray/black market for broken or stolen parts, so the only reason manufacturers do it at all is when they are required to by regulation.
    - tmerc 9mo ago
      Calling bs. It takes more effort to implement proprietary protocols and codes in addition to the globally mandated obd2 protocol. You can extend obd2 with additional codes that could be read by a simple device. It costs money to run servers that check your license to read those proprietary codes. It's not laziness. The black market on stolen parts isn't affected by this. Catalytic converter are stolen and resold all the time and swapping one doesn't require anything more complex than a socket set and a new gasket (assuming the thief didn't use a cutting tool, but then you just weld). Cats also get sold for scrap, so not sure what the software lock is gonna do for that. Hellcat engines get swapped all the time. ECUs get flashed by the black market regardless of the software locks. But what we see this proprietary software get used for is blocking the ability to swap brake pads and block heated seats. So it's not crime, but I'll agree on greed.
ambicapter 9mo ago
What do the sensors do? There's not much you can change in the catalytic converter so I assume it's just reading temperature? So I assume it's changing the fuel/air combustion ratio according to the cat's temperature?
- immibis 9mo ago
  Not a motorhead but IIRC a combustion with too little oxygen produces soot (pollution) and one with too much oxygen produces NOx pollution, with a sweet spot in the middle. The exhaust oxygen sensor allows the ECU to adjust the air/fuel mix to hit the minimum pollution spot, instead of estimating it. There might also be a catalyst temperature sensor or something. It's not a "whole bunch" of sensors, it's a few sensors and it's not some inscrutable magic, it's somethijg someone could replicate in open-source if they had equipment and time. We really need to get away from the mindset that proprietary stuff contains inscrutable magic. It's often worse quality than the open thing. However, it does have the right connections to be allowed to be put in a car that drives on the road.
Animats 9mo ago
Engine control alone can be self-contained. The Ford EEC IV of the 1980s had its program permanently etched into the Intel 8061 CPU, and was designed to last 30 years. It did. I finally sold off my 40 year old Ford Bronco, which was still running on the original engine and CPU.

HPsquared 9mo ago

Maybe Framework could get into the car business.

roland35 9mo ago

You should look into the slate truck! This is exactly what they are trying to do

kaonwarb 9mo ago
https://www.slate.auto https://www.slate.auto

everdrive 9mo ago

How about an option just to have one of those old Ford radios with the huge buttons you can push with gloves on? And maybe an aux-in?

nandomrumber 9mo ago
So long as it also plays cassettes. My first car had the mechanical radio buttons and cassette player, I think you even had to turn the cassette over when one side ended.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

jfengel 9mo ago

Incidentally, you're describing my 2020 Subaru Impreza. Under $20k for my dealer demo. I do wish it supported a later version of Android Auto so that I could run that via Bluetooth. (It does have regular Bluetooth but that's just audio.)

crazysim 9mo ago
Wireless Android Auto or Carplay generally use BT to setup but WiFi to send the bulk of the graphical data over. That said, there are adapters to make an existing Android Auto Wireless if you want it. I think some are sold on Amazon too so you could probably try and maybe return. I don't have any experience with them since I'm very happy with my car's built in wired Android Auto and the reliability of cabling but it is something you can try.
- jfengel 9mo ago
  Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.
  - devilbunny 9mo ago
    I have one for my wife's car that has wired-only CarPlay. The dongle can do Android Auto as well. It has a bit of lag compared to wired or built-in wireless CarPlay (have used that in rentals) but it's not really an issue for usability. It was maybe $30.
cuu508 9mo ago
Were they sold with an option to have have no OEM infotainment? Just speakers and a phone mount?
- jfengel 9mo ago
  I don't think it has any OEM infotainment. I think there is some kind of software in there but I've never looked at it. It's not intrusive.

hypercube33 9mo ago

We already had basically the solution you suggested with airplay/car play - USB charger with audio out that just is a display. when a phone isn't plugged in it shows super basic radio features like station and song name for AM and FM.

20after4 9mo ago
Had it and now most manufacturers are abandoning that for some proprietary crap that's much worse and requires a subscription for navigation and music streaming.

ornornor 9mo ago

> Instead of a 2000 USD proprietary touchscreen that will be obsolete in 3 years, the dashboard could be just a double DIN slot and a heavy-duty, universal tablet mount with a 100W USB-C PD port. The car provides the power and the speakers and my phone provides the maps and music. When the tech improves, you upgrade your phone, not your dashboard. Dacia does that. The base sandero comes with speakers and Bluetooth. The rest is up to you, there is no screen no radio.

kergonath 9mo ago
I am happy with Car Play as a decent middle ground. It’s nice to have a large screen, and everything is still done on the phone and not on a shite computer whose components were cost-cut to an inch of their lives.

klum 9mo ago

I have a theory that these environmental regulations at least to some degree defeat themselves. They make engines more complicated, so more fragile and harder for an amateur (edit: or any professional who isn't their own brand repair shops) to service. They encourage smaller-block engines with turbos and compressors which makes the engine more short-lived. They produce stuff like throttle-hang and gear selection recommendations optimized for driving economy, not engine longevity (or driving experience, for that matter). On the whole, they seem to be contributing to this movement of taking power away from the end consumer and making your product more and more like a subscription (this goes further than the car industry, of course). I do realize that it's important to cut down on pollution! And maybe this kind of stuff has been studied... although I imagine it would be very hard to do accurately. Imagine if a car manufacturer would provide service guides, easily-accessible part diagrams and competitively priced spare parts. Imagine if they optimized for longevity and if the handbook that came with the car had more technical details than it had warnings about how doing any kind of maintenance yourself will result in a) your death and b) a voided warranty. That would be pretty nice.

nandomrumber 9mo ago
Did I hear right that some new vehicles are claiming 20,000km service intervals? I know I’ve seen 15,000 service intervals. This is the minimum to maintain the warranty for the first 3 / 5 / 7 seven years whatever. If you change the oil at every 5000k and never turn off a cold engine - all petrol engines have fuel wash down at ignition cut, but much worse when the engine is come - you should expect 500,000+ plus kilometres out of an engine barring any metallurgical problems or manufacturing defects. Petrol makes a poor lubricant for engines, and fucks engine oil. The less of it in engine oil the better. Modern engines and fully synthetic oils are way better than the their counterparts from my youth, but 15,000+ kilometres service intervals are less about what engines need and more about what the folks over in marketing need. Edit: I did see a second hand commercial diesel van recently that had met all service requirements for the warranty period, x number of years or 90,000 kilometres. This meant it had logged exactly two oil changes since new, and the third had just been done at 90,000. 90,000k on two oil changes. Wild.

schmuckonwheels 9mo ago

>the dashboard could be just a double DIN slot and a heavy-duty, universal tablet mount with a 100W USB-C PD port. The car provides the power and the speakers and my phone provides the maps and music. Legally mandated backup cameras make your idea DOA. In fact, nearly everything terrible about cars in the last decade can be traced to regulations in some way. Wondering why transmissions are insanely complicated and unreliable now? Manufacturers were forced to eek out an extra couple MPG due to continually tightening environmental regulations. Something has to give.

MobiusHorizons 9mo ago
> In fact, nearly everything terrible about cars in the last decade can be traced to regulations in some way. I think the reason we even need backup cameras now is that visibility is so poor on modern vehicles. I think that in turn is due to increasing the height of the bottom of the windows for better airbags. I’m sure it’s great in a crash, but visibility is also a safety concern. Not all of it is regulations though, but lot of common complaints.
kalleboo 9mo ago
>Legally mandated backup cameras make your idea DOA. Cheap cars without fancy entertainment systems put the backup camera screen in the rear-view mirror. You can get these kits for like $20 on aliexpress.
AngryData 9mo ago
A backup camera and screen only costs like $20 though, even buying it 3rd party. There is no requirement that it has to be in the center console, in fact I would think that is the worst possible place since it is the farthest spot possible away from your actual mirrors.

Braxton1980 9mo ago

I can unlock my doors with my phone and monitor the cars location with my phone with cloud connectivity. This isn't required and was offered as a 5 year free plan with optional paid extensions after How is this bad?

yjftsjthsd-h 9mo ago
Now the car company has a live feed of your location and the ability to unlock your car at will. That's probably fine unless they get hacked, at which point it abruptly becomes less fine. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35919133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35919133
deleted 9mo ago
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tmerc 9mo ago
They sell your location data, driving habits, etc. then the insurance company buys it and raises your rates. I declined it when I bought my Subaru and they registered my car to someone else's email address, giving someone else access to those features. That module is now on a shelf in my garage. I park in gear (manual) so remote start can launch my car into a wall. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-your-car-knows-about-you-and-opt-out-sharing-when-you-can https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/how-figure-out-what-yo...

4MOAisgoodenuf 9mo ago

Please allow me to introduce you to the second gen Toyota Yaris

sokoloff 9mo ago

My understanding is that ABS in cars has surprisingly little effect on fatalities. It is a huge lifesaver when deployed to motorcycles, and a benefit to reducing non-fatal crashes, but not much for fatals in cars. (I agree it's a well-solved problem and the reduction in non-fatal crashes makes it worthwhile from a convenience standpoint alone.)