8 ms·

Starlink now offers direct-to-cellphone 4G coverage, no extra equipment needed.

by Telemakhos 9mo ago

pelagicAustral 9mo ago
You do still need an ISP playing ball with Starlink for that to work.
- hdgvhicv 9mo ago
  You need Musk to play ball. Starlink worked fine when Afghanistan turned off the internet. There’s a lot of rhetoric about the evil musk internet there - the government don’t care about things like vsat, it’s very specifically framed as anti America and anti Musk Remember the people enforcing it (going to businesses and checking their connections) are thick as two short planks. Iran I expect has a more effective enforcement than the taliban, but the principal is the same - starlink works fine in these countries and downlinks elsewhere (Europe in the case of Afghanistan). GEO providers like Inmarsat downlink in places like the Netherlands. It’s all rather meaningless as only a tiny number of people have access to these systems, compared to access to the Internet via phones.
lostlogin 9mo ago
Musk has to agree though - and he was shutting this down at various points in Ukraine over his support for Russian. Ideally Starlink wouldn’t be involved.
- stevenhuang 9mo ago
  The situation was more complicated than that, there was pressure from the US gov (itar) and desire not escalate the situation at the time. Now that the geopolitical situation has changed and funding concerns mostly alleviated, there are 200k terminals in use in Ukraine. https://circleid.com/posts/starlink-in-ukraine-what-three-years-of-wartime-connectivity-taught-us https://circleid.com/posts/starlink-in-ukraine-what-three-ye...
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    He took a very public approach to navigating that and while that would be on brand, it’s wild. He seem to have been directly communicating with Putin. Disconnecting Ukraine at key points in battles would fit with the current administration’s flip flopping approach, but again he is at the front of it and on Twitter slagging off supposed American allies. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/10/why-is-elon-musk-talking-to-vladimir-putin-and-what-does-it-mean-for-spacex/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/10/why-is-elon-musk-talki... This may all get weird again as the US seems to have blundered into conflict with Russia over Venezuela so maybe the Ukraine may see some support.
nicepost 9mo ago
Would starlink be reliable in countries where it's leadership wasn't politically aligned though?
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  This has already been established with Ukraine. It’s weird there and seems to be running now. Though Russian troops have been pictured with it too.
  - heraldgeezer 9mo ago
    If the device is in Ukraine, how would it distinguish between russians or ukranians using it in the same country? Like, decide.
    - lostlogin 9mo ago
      That’s very clearly a problem. But that wasn’t the one Musk weighed in on, he just blocked Ukraine at some points in time.
    - anabab 9mo ago
      A government may introduce a list of identifiers of devices allowed to operate in their territory. With relatively frequent verification to prevent the use of captured devices.
      - stogot 9mo ago
        Not a bad idea, but I doubt they know how many they have or their citizens have. Let alone serial numbers
        anabab 9mo ago
        IIUC the critical use is by military units, so a process to list all the serial numbers shall be quite straightforward
aspect0545 9mo ago
Starlink is Musk. That‘s not reliable
- lucasRW 9mo ago
  I know you hate it, but X and Starlink are the only channels giving us information on Iran right now. If X was censored (like many leftists are advocating), we wouldn't know anything about those riots.
  - djeastm 9mo ago
    What are Iranians posting on X that the left would want censored?
    - lucasRW 9mo ago
      People rising against a regime that the left sympathizes with, obviously. Iranians describing how Isam destroyed their country within one decade (the UK establishment is very unconfortable with that truth, for some reaslon...). Iranians calling on Trump and thanking Elon. That tends to make leftists mad.
      - djeastm 9mo ago
        >That tends to make leftists mad. Being mad is one thing, but demanding X censor that speech is another. I'm not really involved in this debate so I haven't seen anything like that. Can you provide some examples of any prominent people on the left calling for X to censor that speech?
        lucasRW 9mo ago
        Starmer, T.Breton (former EU commissioner, the one who got denied VISA to the US going forward), google them with "X ban" and you'll have all the results you want. Similar with many other EU political figures.
frrn 9mo ago
An extremely centralized network like Starlink depending on the wishes of its owner is the opposite of freedom. We need sovereign alternatives.
- mixermachine 9mo ago
  Don't get me wrong, but somebody has to operate an exit node and somehow there needs to be a consensus on the protocol + routing. If the network is only earth bound fixed wireless, the distance might be small enough that the state comes for the operator itself... This raises the cost of running this network from just money to life threat. Getting many open source satellites up in orbit might not be feasible.
  - frrn 9mo ago
    Agreed that nothing is fully trustless on Earth. The point isn’t eliminating operators, it’s avoiding single points of coercion and failure. One exit can be shut down but many exits and type of networks (includong more alternative infra like the Guifi.net’s meshnetworks in Spain for example) across jurisdictions raise the cost from “call a CEO” to sustained political pressure or directly a CEO that has control over an entire network and its also a billionaire CEO with a messiah complex, far-right leanings and tendency to drug abuse. Absolute decentralization is impossible. Reducing capture and increasing resilience is not. That’s a meaningful difference. Said that, I’m happy with Starlink as an extra actor for a healthy mix of ISPs and networks that brings resilience.
- hdgvhicv 9mo ago
  Sovereign like one controlled by the Iranian government?
  - frrn 9mo ago
    That’s a false dichotomy. Saying Starlink isn’t sovereign doesn’t imply support for state-controlled networks. Criticizing corporate centralization ≠ endorsing government control. The goal is systems where authority is fragmented enough that capture (by states or corporations) is structurally hard
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
girvo 9mo ago
It's apparently being jammed in Iran from what I've heard/read, though I don't know how reliable that is.
- heraldgeezer 9mo ago
  Cant be jammed. The dishes can be found and disabled ofc. If it could be "jammed" like that Russia would "jam" the Ukranian ones.
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    Putin found a way of achieving that at a couple of points in time.
  - ninjagoo 9mo ago
    Why can't it be jammed? Can't any radio signal can be jammed by a stronger one?
    - slumberlust 9mo ago
      The way it's been presented in other threads is that the narrow beam makes it quite difficult to jam at scale.
  - girvo 9mo ago
    > If it could be "jammed" like that Russia would "jam" the Ukranian ones. They did, though, in a few places? It was reported as such anyway, again this is not something I'm an expert on.

Starlink now offers direct-to-cellphone 4G coverage, no extra equipment needed.

pelagicAustral 9mo ago

You do still need an ISP playing ball with Starlink for that to work.

hdgvhicv 9mo ago
You need Musk to play ball. Starlink worked fine when Afghanistan turned off the internet. There’s a lot of rhetoric about the evil musk internet there - the government don’t care about things like vsat, it’s very specifically framed as anti America and anti Musk Remember the people enforcing it (going to businesses and checking their connections) are thick as two short planks. Iran I expect has a more effective enforcement than the taliban, but the principal is the same - starlink works fine in these countries and downlinks elsewhere (Europe in the case of Afghanistan). GEO providers like Inmarsat downlink in places like the Netherlands. It’s all rather meaningless as only a tiny number of people have access to these systems, compared to access to the Internet via phones.

lostlogin 9mo ago

Musk has to agree though - and he was shutting this down at various points in Ukraine over his support for Russian. Ideally Starlink wouldn’t be involved.

stevenhuang 9mo ago
The situation was more complicated than that, there was pressure from the US gov (itar) and desire not escalate the situation at the time. Now that the geopolitical situation has changed and funding concerns mostly alleviated, there are 200k terminals in use in Ukraine. https://circleid.com/posts/starlink-in-ukraine-what-three-years-of-wartime-connectivity-taught-us https://circleid.com/posts/starlink-in-ukraine-what-three-ye...
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  He took a very public approach to navigating that and while that would be on brand, it’s wild. He seem to have been directly communicating with Putin. Disconnecting Ukraine at key points in battles would fit with the current administration’s flip flopping approach, but again he is at the front of it and on Twitter slagging off supposed American allies. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/10/why-is-elon-musk-talking-to-vladimir-putin-and-what-does-it-mean-for-spacex/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/10/why-is-elon-musk-talki... This may all get weird again as the US seems to have blundered into conflict with Russia over Venezuela so maybe the Ukraine may see some support.

nicepost 9mo ago

Would starlink be reliable in countries where it's leadership wasn't politically aligned though?

lostlogin 9mo ago
This has already been established with Ukraine. It’s weird there and seems to be running now. Though Russian troops have been pictured with it too.
- heraldgeezer 9mo ago
  If the device is in Ukraine, how would it distinguish between russians or ukranians using it in the same country? Like, decide.
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    That’s very clearly a problem. But that wasn’t the one Musk weighed in on, he just blocked Ukraine at some points in time.
  - anabab 9mo ago
    A government may introduce a list of identifiers of devices allowed to operate in their territory. With relatively frequent verification to prevent the use of captured devices.
    - stogot 9mo ago
      Not a bad idea, but I doubt they know how many they have or their citizens have. Let alone serial numbers
      - anabab 9mo ago
        IIUC the critical use is by military units, so a process to list all the serial numbers shall be quite straightforward

aspect0545 9mo ago

Starlink is Musk. That‘s not reliable

lucasRW 9mo ago
I know you hate it, but X and Starlink are the only channels giving us information on Iran right now. If X was censored (like many leftists are advocating), we wouldn't know anything about those riots.
- djeastm 9mo ago
  What are Iranians posting on X that the left would want censored?
  - lucasRW 9mo ago
    People rising against a regime that the left sympathizes with, obviously. Iranians describing how Isam destroyed their country within one decade (the UK establishment is very unconfortable with that truth, for some reaslon...). Iranians calling on Trump and thanking Elon. That tends to make leftists mad.
    - djeastm 9mo ago
      >That tends to make leftists mad. Being mad is one thing, but demanding X censor that speech is another. I'm not really involved in this debate so I haven't seen anything like that. Can you provide some examples of any prominent people on the left calling for X to censor that speech?
      - lucasRW 9mo ago
        Starmer, T.Breton (former EU commissioner, the one who got denied VISA to the US going forward), google them with "X ban" and you'll have all the results you want. Similar with many other EU political figures.

frrn 9mo ago

An extremely centralized network like Starlink depending on the wishes of its owner is the opposite of freedom. We need sovereign alternatives.

mixermachine 9mo ago
Don't get me wrong, but somebody has to operate an exit node and somehow there needs to be a consensus on the protocol + routing. If the network is only earth bound fixed wireless, the distance might be small enough that the state comes for the operator itself... This raises the cost of running this network from just money to life threat. Getting many open source satellites up in orbit might not be feasible.
- frrn 9mo ago
  Agreed that nothing is fully trustless on Earth. The point isn’t eliminating operators, it’s avoiding single points of coercion and failure. One exit can be shut down but many exits and type of networks (includong more alternative infra like the Guifi.net’s meshnetworks in Spain for example) across jurisdictions raise the cost from “call a CEO” to sustained political pressure or directly a CEO that has control over an entire network and its also a billionaire CEO with a messiah complex, far-right leanings and tendency to drug abuse. Absolute decentralization is impossible. Reducing capture and increasing resilience is not. That’s a meaningful difference. Said that, I’m happy with Starlink as an extra actor for a healthy mix of ISPs and networks that brings resilience.
hdgvhicv 9mo ago
Sovereign like one controlled by the Iranian government?
- frrn 9mo ago
  That’s a false dichotomy. Saying Starlink isn’t sovereign doesn’t imply support for state-controlled networks. Criticizing corporate centralization ≠ endorsing government control. The goal is systems where authority is fragmented enough that capture (by states or corporations) is structurally hard

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

girvo 9mo ago

It's apparently being jammed in Iran from what I've heard/read, though I don't know how reliable that is.

heraldgeezer 9mo ago
Cant be jammed. The dishes can be found and disabled ofc. If it could be "jammed" like that Russia would "jam" the Ukranian ones.
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  Putin found a way of achieving that at a couple of points in time.
- ninjagoo 9mo ago
  Why can't it be jammed? Can't any radio signal can be jammed by a stronger one?
  - slumberlust 9mo ago
    The way it's been presented in other threads is that the narrow beam makes it quite difficult to jam at scale.
- girvo 9mo ago
  > If it could be "jammed" like that Russia would "jam" the Ukranian ones. They did, though, in a few places? It was reported as such anyway, again this is not something I'm an expert on.