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Large states (including the US) have been intervening in nearby countries since the beginning of time. Even for Latin America, this is a "typical" intervention

Large states (including the US) have been intervening in nearby countries since the beginning of time. Even for Latin America, this is a "typical" intervention for the US: Cuba, Panama, Grenada, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Haiti, Guatemala, on and on, all happened in the 20th century. What's different this time is the total lack of effort (or ability to?) to construct a narrative justifying it.

hshdhdhj4444 10mo ago
20th century means that we’re talking at least 2.5 decades ago. That’s a long time. And for the most part, US foreign policy regarded much of those actions as folly even if they will never say that publicly. You’re absolutely right with your assessment but beyond that this is also a rolling back of the clock to thinking from decades ago.
- nasmorn 10mo ago
  When the Soviets were literally standing 60km from Vienna with tank brigades a lot of bullshit was easier to swallow. Right now it seems like totally unnecessary destabilization. Don’t even get me started on proposing to seizing NATO territory by force in Greenland.
- graemep 10mo ago
  Yes, but that was because there was a golden age when the west dominated the world without facing serious rivals. There was less need for interventions and the west was deluded (by wishful thinking) into regarding this as a permanent shift. Even in the last 25 years the US has fought in Afghanistan, bombed Libya, ISIL held territory, Syria, blockaded Yemen and probably more. The world today is going back to a cold war like rivalry between the US and China so we can expect both sides to use much the same tactics.
  - Heapifying 10mo ago
    So Latin America has to expect an Operation Condor 2.0, that implemented state terrorism across all of Latin America?
elcritch 10mo ago
Yep, but folks love their veneer. The morals of the American people and that of the state department / industrial complex aren't the same. Oddly in this case the US government seemed to do something that many Venezuelan expats support. We'll see if it helps the lives of regular Venezuelans at all. Also a number of sci-fi from the last decade or two predicted or imagined the US in a war in Venezuela in the 2030's. It makes more sense to view it not for oil but more to keep Chinese and Russian influence out of the US's "backyard". Apparently both had been getting close to Maduro.
mindslight 10mo ago
We also have to recognize that these particular narratives actually created some objectively positive accomplishments as well. That's what made the postwar US different than the postwar USSR. We can plainly see the results in some pretty well set up experiments (eg East Germany vs West Germany). It's very easy to criticize the failings of liberal American values and liberties looking from a vantage point where we get to take those values and liberties for granted. ... but now it seems as if people got bored of those lofty narratives, and the US can't even prevent its own domestic jihadis from overrunning the country with backwards fundamentalism. So now we're staring down their equivalent of Sharia law while they rally around regime-sponsored murderers ramping up sectarian violence.
nextaccountic 10mo ago
The last US backed coup in latin America was Bolivia 2019
- laughing_man 10mo ago
  Is there any evidence this is the case?

hshdhdhj4444 10mo ago

20th century means that we’re talking at least 2.5 decades ago. That’s a long time. And for the most part, US foreign policy regarded much of those actions as folly even if they will never say that publicly. You’re absolutely right with your assessment but beyond that this is also a rolling back of the clock to thinking from decades ago.

nasmorn 10mo ago
When the Soviets were literally standing 60km from Vienna with tank brigades a lot of bullshit was easier to swallow. Right now it seems like totally unnecessary destabilization. Don’t even get me started on proposing to seizing NATO territory by force in Greenland.
graemep 10mo ago
Yes, but that was because there was a golden age when the west dominated the world without facing serious rivals. There was less need for interventions and the west was deluded (by wishful thinking) into regarding this as a permanent shift. Even in the last 25 years the US has fought in Afghanistan, bombed Libya, ISIL held territory, Syria, blockaded Yemen and probably more. The world today is going back to a cold war like rivalry between the US and China so we can expect both sides to use much the same tactics.
- Heapifying 10mo ago
  So Latin America has to expect an Operation Condor 2.0, that implemented state terrorism across all of Latin America?

elcritch 10mo ago

Yep, but folks love their veneer. The morals of the American people and that of the state department / industrial complex aren't the same. Oddly in this case the US government seemed to do something that many Venezuelan expats support. We'll see if it helps the lives of regular Venezuelans at all. Also a number of sci-fi from the last decade or two predicted or imagined the US in a war in Venezuela in the 2030's. It makes more sense to view it not for oil but more to keep Chinese and Russian influence out of the US's "backyard". Apparently both had been getting close to Maduro.

mindslight 10mo ago

We also have to recognize that these particular narratives actually created some objectively positive accomplishments as well. That's what made the postwar US different than the postwar USSR. We can plainly see the results in some pretty well set up experiments (eg East Germany vs West Germany). It's very easy to criticize the failings of liberal American values and liberties looking from a vantage point where we get to take those values and liberties for granted. ... but now it seems as if people got bored of those lofty narratives, and the US can't even prevent its own domestic jihadis from overrunning the country with backwards fundamentalism. So now we're staring down their equivalent of Sharia law while they rally around regime-sponsored murderers ramping up sectarian violence.

nextaccountic 10mo ago

The last US backed coup in latin America was Bolivia 2019

laughing_man 10mo ago
Is there any evidence this is the case?