3 ms·

Yes, the right to spread avoidable infectious diseases obviously has priority. /s

roenxi 9mo ago
Have infectious diseases stopped spreading? And all this is happening in the shadows of COVID where the vaccines famously had no significant impact on the rate of the spread. The people claiming they would turned out to be part of the misinformation crowd. We ran a natural experiment in Australia. Everyone got the vaccine, then everyone got COVID over the course of a month or two. The official numbers were high and aren't even accurate because there were too many cases to count, it got everywhere and the measurement kits ran out.
- surgical_fire 9mo ago
  > Have infectious diseases stopped spreading? Thanks to vaccines? Yes. Multiple times in history. Smallpox, polio, measles, mumps. > vaccines famously had no significant impact on the rate of the spread. That's quite a claim. I see you provided no sources. As far as I remember, vaccines were the main reason things became safe enough to things to return to a sense of normalcy. I mean, I am not from they US, so my actual response to this news is a vague shrug. I just hope the anti-vax bullshit is contained within US borders.
  - roenxi 9mo ago
    > That's quite a claim. I see you provided no sources. Why do I need to source anything? Nobody credible ever claimed the vaccines would slow the spread, no evidence was ever provided that vaccines slow the spread and theory suggests they probably won't slow the spread. The people making things up in defiance of the obvious are the ones who need to start providing sources on this one. If you want to check the numbers; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia - we've got 22 million vaccinated people on a population of around 25 million in 2021. We see ~12 million confirmed COVID cases and in the immediate post-lockdown period the testing system crumbled under load. Do the math. An exponential process that everyone was exposed to was downgraded to ... still an exponentially growing process that everyone was exposed to. Maybe it spread the pandemic phase out to 2 months instead of 1 (based on my memory of watching the stats at the time). The vaccine didn't cut down on the number of infections. It was strictly personal protection. Members of my family regularly get COVID.
    - lostlogin 9mo ago
      > Why do I need to source anything? Nobody credible ever claimed the vaccines would slow the spread How much polio or small pox have you seen?
    - defrost 9mo ago
      > We see ~12 million confirmed COVID cases but only 5,025 and 19,265 deaths. Vaccination slowed the spread of the primary varients and reduced the health impacts on those that tested positive for COVID by preloading the immune response.
      - roenxi 9mo ago
        Yeah. That is a really good argument for recommending people get the vaccine. But it concedes any reason to start coercive medical treatments. The COVID vaccines were very much about personal protection. It circles back quite neatly to the idea that people should be allowed to make their own determination about what is good for their health, what isn't and what risk tolerance they are personally comfortable with. The people arguing that collective action knows best once again blew their credibility with COVID, making up the theory about herd immunity was a big shot in the arm for the anti-vax movement. And as you can guess I'd rather side with the anti-vaxers, they're better friends than the authoritarians.
    - watwut 9mo ago
      You are just lying here. Obviously lying, because I guess, that is the only way to support the regime you wamt to support
    - surgical_fire 9mo ago
      > Why do I need to source anything? "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". I sourced my claims: smallpox, polio, measles, mumps. You offered vibes instead of sources.
      - roenxi 9mo ago
        > I sourced my claims: smallpox, polio, measles, mumps. 1. That isn't what sourcing a claim means. It means to provide sources for why your claims are true; or at least where you heard the claim first. Picking specific examples is helpful, but it isn't providing a source. And despite those examples, I still catch an infections disease ... basically annually. 2. I suppose I assumed it was going to be made obvious by context, but I don't care about smallpox, polio, measles or mumps and I'm not talking about them. Nobody forced me to do anything in relation to them, nobody threatened my livelihood over them and I don't feel at any risk of being forbidden from leaving my house because of them. It is a good point but I didn't intend to talk about it - it stands alone as a point and beyond that I don't care. Since you bought it up more then once you get this paragraph. But if it is necessary to put up with measles to put the authoritarians in a box? So be it. The anti-vaxers are the lesser of two evils, they're minnows compared to the sharks who were showing their colours through COVID; we're lucky that episode only lasted long enough for the authoritarians to do terrible economic damage.
  - Animats 9mo ago
    Measles charts (US) [1] Line goes down to nearly zero and stays there. Polio chart (US) [2] See the line go almost straight down to 0 after vaccine introduction and stay there. Smallpox has been totally exterminated by vaccination. Any questions? [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death [2] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates-in-the-united-states https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates...

Have infectious diseases stopped spreading? And all this is happening in the shadows of COVID where the vaccines famously had no significant impact on the rate of the spread. The people claiming they would turned out to be part of the misinformation crowd. We ran a natural experiment in Australia. Everyone got the vaccine, then everyone got COVID over the course of a month or two. The official numbers were high and aren't even accurate because there were too many cases to count, it got everywhere and the measurement kits ran out.

surgical_fire 9mo ago
> Have infectious diseases stopped spreading? Thanks to vaccines? Yes. Multiple times in history. Smallpox, polio, measles, mumps. > vaccines famously had no significant impact on the rate of the spread. That's quite a claim. I see you provided no sources. As far as I remember, vaccines were the main reason things became safe enough to things to return to a sense of normalcy. I mean, I am not from they US, so my actual response to this news is a vague shrug. I just hope the anti-vax bullshit is contained within US borders.
- roenxi 9mo ago
  > That's quite a claim. I see you provided no sources. Why do I need to source anything? Nobody credible ever claimed the vaccines would slow the spread, no evidence was ever provided that vaccines slow the spread and theory suggests they probably won't slow the spread. The people making things up in defiance of the obvious are the ones who need to start providing sources on this one. If you want to check the numbers; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia - we've got 22 million vaccinated people on a population of around 25 million in 2021. We see ~12 million confirmed COVID cases and in the immediate post-lockdown period the testing system crumbled under load. Do the math. An exponential process that everyone was exposed to was downgraded to ... still an exponentially growing process that everyone was exposed to. Maybe it spread the pandemic phase out to 2 months instead of 1 (based on my memory of watching the stats at the time). The vaccine didn't cut down on the number of infections. It was strictly personal protection. Members of my family regularly get COVID.
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    > Why do I need to source anything? Nobody credible ever claimed the vaccines would slow the spread How much polio or small pox have you seen?
  - defrost 9mo ago
    > We see ~12 million confirmed COVID cases but only 5,025 and 19,265 deaths. Vaccination slowed the spread of the primary varients and reduced the health impacts on those that tested positive for COVID by preloading the immune response.
    - roenxi 9mo ago
      Yeah. That is a really good argument for recommending people get the vaccine. But it concedes any reason to start coercive medical treatments. The COVID vaccines were very much about personal protection. It circles back quite neatly to the idea that people should be allowed to make their own determination about what is good for their health, what isn't and what risk tolerance they are personally comfortable with. The people arguing that collective action knows best once again blew their credibility with COVID, making up the theory about herd immunity was a big shot in the arm for the anti-vax movement. And as you can guess I'd rather side with the anti-vaxers, they're better friends than the authoritarians.
  - watwut 9mo ago
    You are just lying here. Obviously lying, because I guess, that is the only way to support the regime you wamt to support
  - surgical_fire 9mo ago
    > Why do I need to source anything? "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". I sourced my claims: smallpox, polio, measles, mumps. You offered vibes instead of sources.
    - roenxi 9mo ago
      > I sourced my claims: smallpox, polio, measles, mumps. 1. That isn't what sourcing a claim means. It means to provide sources for why your claims are true; or at least where you heard the claim first. Picking specific examples is helpful, but it isn't providing a source. And despite those examples, I still catch an infections disease ... basically annually. 2. I suppose I assumed it was going to be made obvious by context, but I don't care about smallpox, polio, measles or mumps and I'm not talking about them. Nobody forced me to do anything in relation to them, nobody threatened my livelihood over them and I don't feel at any risk of being forbidden from leaving my house because of them. It is a good point but I didn't intend to talk about it - it stands alone as a point and beyond that I don't care. Since you bought it up more then once you get this paragraph. But if it is necessary to put up with measles to put the authoritarians in a box? So be it. The anti-vaxers are the lesser of two evils, they're minnows compared to the sharks who were showing their colours through COVID; we're lucky that episode only lasted long enough for the authoritarians to do terrible economic damage.
- Animats 9mo ago
  Measles charts (US) [1] Line goes down to nearly zero and stays there. Polio chart (US) [2] See the line go almost straight down to 0 after vaccine introduction and stay there. Smallpox has been totally exterminated by vaccination. Any questions? [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death [2] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates-in-the-united-states https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates...