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The part (as a person of another country) that I don't understand is why people even here on HN is so much against people whose job is to arrest people who brok

by xiphias2 10mo ago

The part (as a person of another country) that I don't understand is why people even here on HN is so much against people whose job is to arrest people who broke federal laws. As I see those laws are not really knew, they were just not enforced during the previous administration as strictly, but people who broke those laws did it consciously. Do people really care about the people who broke the laws or just hate the current administration so much?

RajT88 10mo ago
I will try here. Illegal presence is a civil violation. Civil violations are not crimes (in the sense the law is divided into civil and criminal law): https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/criminal-defense/is-illegal-immigration-a-crime-improper-entry-v-unlawful-presence/ https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/criminal-defense/is-illeg... Sneaking across the border is a crime. Overstaying your visa (70-80% of "illegal immigration") is not a crime. It is more analogous to a parking ticket in terms of severity. The thing is - for a long time immigration was not enforced because the legals paths were blocked off to create a class of cheap labor to drive the American economy. It worked, and it source mostly jobs which citizens did not want to do. (Not entirely, and yes it did depress wages) It is a complicated issue.
- the_doctah 10mo ago
  >Chief among these civil penalties is deportation or removal, where an unlawful resident may be detained and removed from the country.
  - RajT88 10mo ago
    The deportation part is the defensible part of the story. It is a lot more than "sending them home". What's going on is excessive. It's worth mentioning - the people being "deported" have something in common, and it's not necessarily their immigration status, it's overwhelmingly their ethnicity. The Polish and eastern European community by me doesn't seem to be having any deportation issues, despite having a lot of illegal immigrants via visa overstay.
    - the_doctah 10mo ago
      That's because they aren't the ones causing the biggest problems
      - defrost 10mo ago
        Indeed. Being black and being accused of eating pets causes a great many problems.
        giardini 9mo ago
        [flagged]
      - RajT88 10mo ago
        Latinos are - statistically - causing less problems than citizens. In fact, they are propping up our economy. I had suspected you were posting in bad faith; now I know for sure. Our immigrant population - legal and not - solve more problems than they cause, and the numbers show that. Thanks for putting the lie - explicitly, in your own words - to the idea this is about the law. You were fine with European illegal immigrants which cause similar amounts of issues (few) to Latinos. The difference is ethnicity. Full stop.
scarecrowbob 10mo ago
Last week they kidnapped a guy who has been in my community for 20 years. I don't really care one bit about their legal status- these folks are a part of my community and I don't want them to be kidnapped. That is the whole thing. If a persona can live here and have a house and a job, I don't think it's okay to kidnap them. End of story.
- spindleworld 10mo ago
  [dead]
Izkata 10mo ago
[flagged]
- immibis 10mo ago
  you literally just watched a citizen get murdered on camera and you are still claiming these people are just enforcing immigration law?
metadope 10mo ago
[flagged]
- xiphias2 10mo ago
  I'm not sure why you think my account is overtaken, but it's all real (I haven't used any LLMs and I'm not a native English speaker). U.S. politics is not something people from other countries like me can just ignore as it affects our lives as well (what NATO does just as an example). At the same time I'm not living there and some things are just hard to understand / imagine, and I believe I'm not alone in this (eventhough I love visiting USA). Of course I have my political opinions but I am respectful and actually like to discuss life experiences my friends who were ,,forced'' on the other side of the political spectrum. In my experience there is usually one or two emotionally/financially charged case that makes people choose a side and then get in that viewpoint (I'm no different). What's not productive (and what I have unfortunately felt here in political threads) is just simply downvoting eachother.
JohnFen 10mo ago
I think that the objections have more to do with the unnecessary violence, cruelty, and demonization the feds are engaging in, and the fact that they're targeting people who have every legal right to be here, than the law enforcement itself. The feds also going out of their way to subvert justice and defy our system of law and as such, they represent a threat to us all. > they were just not enforced during the previous administration as strictly They were not enforced so cruelly, perhaps, but the Biden administration was not exactly lax about this stuff. They were deporting people in record numbers. They just weren't tossing aside things like basic human dignity, respect for the law, and due process when doing so.
- giardini 9mo ago
  johnFen says >" They just weren't tossing aside things like basic human dignity, respect for the law, and due process when doing so. "< And those who enter the country illegally: where is their respect for the law and where was their acceptance of due process in entering the country? They broke the laws while others did it the legal way. When you break the law and you don't submit to the legal system you are a criminal.
  - defrost 9mo ago
    > When you break the law and you don't submit to the legal system you are a criminal. Weird take when ICE are infamous for staking out courthouses and scooping up people working their way through applications and appeals. Further, undocumented aliens in the US are guilty of civil infractions not criminal felonies .. these are a seperate issue altogether. * https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/FINAL_criminalizing_undocumented_immigrants_issue_brief_PUBLIC_VERSION.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/FINA... * https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime/ https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunk... Perhaps consider getting a clue about this rather than repeating falsehoods.
    - giardini 9mo ago
      thanks! From the first URL you provided: "Entering the United States without being inspected and admitted, i.e., illegal entry, is a misdemeanor or can be a felony, depending on the circumstances. 8 U.S.C. § 1325." Q.E.D.
computerthings 10mo ago
[dead]

RajT88 10mo ago

I will try here. Illegal presence is a civil violation. Civil violations are not crimes (in the sense the law is divided into civil and criminal law): https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/criminal-defense/is-illegal-immigration-a-crime-improper-entry-v-unlawful-presence/ https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/criminal-defense/is-illeg... Sneaking across the border is a crime. Overstaying your visa (70-80% of "illegal immigration") is not a crime. It is more analogous to a parking ticket in terms of severity. The thing is - for a long time immigration was not enforced because the legals paths were blocked off to create a class of cheap labor to drive the American economy. It worked, and it source mostly jobs which citizens did not want to do. (Not entirely, and yes it did depress wages) It is a complicated issue.

the_doctah 10mo ago
>Chief among these civil penalties is deportation or removal, where an unlawful resident may be detained and removed from the country.
- RajT88 10mo ago
  The deportation part is the defensible part of the story. It is a lot more than "sending them home". What's going on is excessive. It's worth mentioning - the people being "deported" have something in common, and it's not necessarily their immigration status, it's overwhelmingly their ethnicity. The Polish and eastern European community by me doesn't seem to be having any deportation issues, despite having a lot of illegal immigrants via visa overstay.
  - the_doctah 10mo ago
    That's because they aren't the ones causing the biggest problems
    - defrost 10mo ago
      Indeed. Being black and being accused of eating pets causes a great many problems.
      - giardini 9mo ago
        [flagged]
    - RajT88 10mo ago
      Latinos are - statistically - causing less problems than citizens. In fact, they are propping up our economy. I had suspected you were posting in bad faith; now I know for sure. Our immigrant population - legal and not - solve more problems than they cause, and the numbers show that. Thanks for putting the lie - explicitly, in your own words - to the idea this is about the law. You were fine with European illegal immigrants which cause similar amounts of issues (few) to Latinos. The difference is ethnicity. Full stop.

scarecrowbob 10mo ago

Last week they kidnapped a guy who has been in my community for 20 years. I don't really care one bit about their legal status- these folks are a part of my community and I don't want them to be kidnapped. That is the whole thing. If a persona can live here and have a house and a job, I don't think it's okay to kidnap them. End of story.

spindleworld 10mo ago
[dead]

Izkata 10mo ago

[flagged]

immibis 10mo ago
you literally just watched a citizen get murdered on camera and you are still claiming these people are just enforcing immigration law?

metadope 10mo ago

[flagged]

xiphias2 10mo ago
I'm not sure why you think my account is overtaken, but it's all real (I haven't used any LLMs and I'm not a native English speaker). U.S. politics is not something people from other countries like me can just ignore as it affects our lives as well (what NATO does just as an example). At the same time I'm not living there and some things are just hard to understand / imagine, and I believe I'm not alone in this (eventhough I love visiting USA). Of course I have my political opinions but I am respectful and actually like to discuss life experiences my friends who were ,,forced'' on the other side of the political spectrum. In my experience there is usually one or two emotionally/financially charged case that makes people choose a side and then get in that viewpoint (I'm no different). What's not productive (and what I have unfortunately felt here in political threads) is just simply downvoting eachother.

JohnFen 10mo ago

I think that the objections have more to do with the unnecessary violence, cruelty, and demonization the feds are engaging in, and the fact that they're targeting people who have every legal right to be here, than the law enforcement itself. The feds also going out of their way to subvert justice and defy our system of law and as such, they represent a threat to us all. > they were just not enforced during the previous administration as strictly They were not enforced so cruelly, perhaps, but the Biden administration was not exactly lax about this stuff. They were deporting people in record numbers. They just weren't tossing aside things like basic human dignity, respect for the law, and due process when doing so.

giardini 9mo ago
johnFen says >" They just weren't tossing aside things like basic human dignity, respect for the law, and due process when doing so. "< And those who enter the country illegally: where is their respect for the law and where was their acceptance of due process in entering the country? They broke the laws while others did it the legal way. When you break the law and you don't submit to the legal system you are a criminal.
- defrost 9mo ago
  > When you break the law and you don't submit to the legal system you are a criminal. Weird take when ICE are infamous for staking out courthouses and scooping up people working their way through applications and appeals. Further, undocumented aliens in the US are guilty of civil infractions not criminal felonies .. these are a seperate issue altogether. * https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/FINAL_criminalizing_undocumented_immigrants_issue_brief_PUBLIC_VERSION.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/FINA... * https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime/ https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunk... Perhaps consider getting a clue about this rather than repeating falsehoods.
  - giardini 9mo ago
    thanks! From the first URL you provided: "Entering the United States without being inspected and admitted, i.e., illegal entry, is a misdemeanor or can be a felony, depending on the circumstances. 8 U.S.C. § 1325." Q.E.D.

computerthings 10mo ago

[dead]