3 ms·

> Western Europe is not an authoritarian dystopia by any measure People are locked up in the Germany and the UK because they criticize the government, its poli

> Western Europe is not an authoritarian dystopia by any measure People are locked up in the Germany and the UK because they criticize the government, its politicians or their policies. I live in Germany.

oytis 9mo ago
Who is locked up for criticizing the government in Germany? You can be fined for insulting a government official, and I think it's a bad law and should be retracted, but a) insulting is not the same as criticizing and b) I've never heard of a single person locked up because of it - you'd basically need to deliberately refuse paying the fine for that
- immibis 9mo ago
  Yanis Varoufakis, I think? Except he was banned from Germany, not locked up. If he tries to enter, then he might be locked up. They used the intermediate step of calling him a terrorist.
- selfmodruntime 9mo ago
  188 Criminal Code Insult, defamation and slander directed against persons in political life[1]: (1) If an insult (§ 185) is committed against a person involved in the political life of the people, either publicly, at a meeting or by disseminating content (§ 11 (3)), for reasons related to the position of the offended person in public life, and if the act is likely to significantly impede their public activities, the penalty shall be imprisonment for up to three years or a fine. The political life of the people extends to the local level. (2) Under the same conditions, defamation (§ 186) shall be punished with imprisonment from three months to five years, and slander (§ 187) with imprisonment from six months to five years. This law is commonly criticized by free speech activists in Germany, as well as liberal parties like Die Linke and FDP. It was updated to be even harsher by our last government. David Bendels received a sentence of 7 months for posting an edited insulting picture of Nancy Faeser, Germany's last minister for interior affairs. The case sparked an international outcry and got a lot of press coverage [2]. Note that ironically the doctored image showed Faeser holding a sign with the message "I hate freedom of speech". [1]: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__188.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__188.html [2]: https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/germany-insult-laws-explained-freedom-speech-cd5qdq0jq https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/germany-insult...
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
joe463369 9mo ago
I live in the UK. This has not happened here
- selfmodruntime 9mo ago
  "UK police made over 12,000 arrests under laws criminalizing communications causing 'annoyance or anxiety,' with arrests rising 58% since 2019" [1]. Only 10% lead to a conviction. What then, is it, other than a government issuing arrests for speech? [1]: https://evrimagaci.org/gpt/london-braces-for-free-speech-showdown-after-comedian-arrest-496828 https://evrimagaci.org/gpt/london-braces-for-free-speech-sho...
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    The vast bulk of those cases are about online harassment, usually against former spouses, public servants, etc. If you are aware of a case where an individual was arrested for just expressing their opinion you are welcome to provide the evidence. Until then this is just FUD. Censorship is bad, protecting the rest of the citizens from harassment is the kind of thing that is actually useful.
  - immibis 9mo ago
    What were they arrested for saying?
    - selfmodruntime 9mo ago
      Are you expecting me to comb through thousands of cases? Obviously they were arrested for saying legal things, if their arrest doesn't follow a conviction in 90% of cases.
      - joe463369 9mo ago
        If you're going to claim that people get arrested in the UK for criticising the government, it's reasonable to expect you have an example to hand.
      - 9mo ago

oytis 9mo ago

Who is locked up for criticizing the government in Germany? You can be fined for insulting a government official, and I think it's a bad law and should be retracted, but a) insulting is not the same as criticizing and b) I've never heard of a single person locked up because of it - you'd basically need to deliberately refuse paying the fine for that

immibis 9mo ago
Yanis Varoufakis, I think? Except he was banned from Germany, not locked up. If he tries to enter, then he might be locked up. They used the intermediate step of calling him a terrorist.
selfmodruntime 9mo ago
188 Criminal Code Insult, defamation and slander directed against persons in political life[1]: (1) If an insult (§ 185) is committed against a person involved in the political life of the people, either publicly, at a meeting or by disseminating content (§ 11 (3)), for reasons related to the position of the offended person in public life, and if the act is likely to significantly impede their public activities, the penalty shall be imprisonment for up to three years or a fine. The political life of the people extends to the local level. (2) Under the same conditions, defamation (§ 186) shall be punished with imprisonment from three months to five years, and slander (§ 187) with imprisonment from six months to five years. This law is commonly criticized by free speech activists in Germany, as well as liberal parties like Die Linke and FDP. It was updated to be even harsher by our last government. David Bendels received a sentence of 7 months for posting an edited insulting picture of Nancy Faeser, Germany's last minister for interior affairs. The case sparked an international outcry and got a lot of press coverage [2]. Note that ironically the doctored image showed Faeser holding a sign with the message "I hate freedom of speech". [1]: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__188.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__188.html [2]: https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/germany-insult-laws-explained-freedom-speech-cd5qdq0jq https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/germany-insult...

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

joe463369 9mo ago

I live in the UK. This has not happened here

selfmodruntime 9mo ago
"UK police made over 12,000 arrests under laws criminalizing communications causing 'annoyance or anxiety,' with arrests rising 58% since 2019" [1]. Only 10% lead to a conviction. What then, is it, other than a government issuing arrests for speech? [1]: https://evrimagaci.org/gpt/london-braces-for-free-speech-showdown-after-comedian-arrest-496828 https://evrimagaci.org/gpt/london-braces-for-free-speech-sho...
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  The vast bulk of those cases are about online harassment, usually against former spouses, public servants, etc. If you are aware of a case where an individual was arrested for just expressing their opinion you are welcome to provide the evidence. Until then this is just FUD. Censorship is bad, protecting the rest of the citizens from harassment is the kind of thing that is actually useful.
- immibis 9mo ago
  What were they arrested for saying?
  - selfmodruntime 9mo ago
    Are you expecting me to comb through thousands of cases? Obviously they were arrested for saying legal things, if their arrest doesn't follow a conviction in 90% of cases.
    - joe463369 9mo ago
      If you're going to claim that people get arrested in the UK for criticising the government, it's reasonable to expect you have an example to hand.
    - 9mo ago