4 ms·

Blah blah. That's why almost all the tech companies in EU that (start to) get big, shifts to US. eu has a shit software industry and it has only itself to blam

Blah blah. That's why almost all the tech companies in EU that (start to) get big, shifts to US. eu has a shit software industry and it has only itself to blame for the insane amount of bureaucracy, cutthroat taxes, labor laws that promote stagnation, and the culture of extreme risk aversion. It is a good place to live until the borrowed time elapses.

fsflover 9mo ago
https://pluralistic.net/2026/01/01/39c3/ https://pluralistic.net/2026/01/01/39c3/
palata 9mo ago
I don't have anything polite to answer to this :-).
- noo_u 9mo ago
  It is, at this point, an easily verifiable fact that software engineering jobs in Europe are en masse poorly paid relative to the equivalent positions in the US, and the majority of the EU companies that actually pay well are actually US based. This causes a lot of outflow of talent. That VC funding in Europe is atrocious is obvious to anyone who has had to go through it, and have fun letting a poor performer go from your 5 person startup. Your polite wishful responses are frustrating to read to anyone who's had to go through this hell.
  - palata 9mo ago
    Are you saying that Europe can't compete with the US monopolies because all the good developers move to the US?
    - rdm_blackhole 9mo ago
      Yes that is what OP is saying and OP is correct. If you are young, talented and you have a crazy idea that might just work and if you are given the opportunity then you go to the US every-time. Why? Because it makes sense. Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US or better yet, start your own company there and then expand in Europe after building it knowing that if you eventually sell it, you get to keep a lot of the sale price. Talented people don't work for nothing. Motivated and ambitious people don't work for nothing. If Europe wants to see it's own tech giants emerge, then it's needs to compensate founders and employees well. That's as simple as it is. Unfortunately it's just not the case at the moment and until that changes, the most ambitious Europeans will continue leaving and building companies on the other side of the Atlantic.
      - palata 9mo ago
        > Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US Have you ever talked to Europeans in your life?
        rdm_blackhole 9mo ago
        Have you? I am a European business owner just FYI. I know very well how much taxes I am paying each month.
        menaerus 9mo ago
        It always amazes me that there is a subset of EU people here on HN who are so detached from reality that it makes me wonder if these same people are sitting in Brussels board making decisions. According to the sh*thole in which EU ended up, it is not completely implausible. Can't agree more with what you're saying. My experience is the same.
        rdm_blackhole 9mo ago
        I hear you. It's frustrating really to have these conversations with people who will deny the reality this much. Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions that everyone should be asking, which are amongst others "how can we fix this mess?" , you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU for spite when it couldn't be further from the truth. It's sad but not surprising and until that changes then nothing will change. Europeans need to start being humble again and need to get to work otherwise then we shouldn't be surprised if the US squeezes us from one side while China out-innovates us from the other side. In the meantime the EU is debating if/when it should amend it's cookie law, I am not sure if I should laugh or cry at this point.
        palata 9mo ago
        > you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU That's not what I think. But you obviously lack the level of empathy you would need to accept that I may think differently. I accept that you think the way you think: you benefit from it as a business owner. > Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions Yeah, because you are so superior to everybody else that people should ask you question, and their opinions are not worth your time. "I am the best, I am so frustrated that so many people don't recognise it".
    - noo_u 9mo ago
      Did I use the word "all" anywhere in my comment? There are good developers in Europe. What I am saying is that there would have been even more of them had the incentives not been so lackluster. More talent seems to generally result in a greater competitive ability. Fwiw, I have doubts that currently Europe can compete with the US at the startup level, let alone at the bigco one. I am not trying to drag Europe down - it worries me that sophisticated complacency, overconfidence based on the achievements of previous generations, and addiction to comfort, will start eroding the very aspects that make it a great place to live at.
    - CrimsonRain 9mo ago
      because EU suffocates good developers, gives free roaming to mediocre ones. EU cant compete with anything US or China except making more cookie laws.
- CrimsonRain 9mo ago
  Please post your impolite answer. I don't mind :) EU (software) industry is a dream for mediocre skilled people. Secure a job once, can't get fired, do bare minimum and never be proactive. It is a hell for people who work hard and fast. The whole culture is geared towards dragging down anyone who is proactive and makes others look bad by being too good.
  - seec 9mo ago
    I agree with some reservations about this being completly generalised. There are still some successfull companies that rewards good players. But yes, there are very few and most of the rest are stuck coasting at a glacial pace, doing stuff that are not very competitive on so many levels it is impossible to describe succintly. I would also argue that it is not just about the software industry. Many EU industries have become extremely uncompetitive on so many level. Even when you are ready to pay more for EU made products, it is not easy to find something that is decently competitive and not just a pale copy of better offerings. It is clear that the EU has become too collectivist but they are still stuck blaming capitalism (just like the soviets I guess). In France, even old big players that were once at the top and/or were (semi)public organisation have fallen very hard or have been scandalously sold piecemeal to foreign actors. The problem is not even that they are governement funded but it really is rooted in the collectivist organisation model that gives too much power to politics and very little lattitude to consumer/key actors choice. Those systems become necessarily corrupted because they rely too much on human behaviors and most humans are fundamentally corrupt.
    - palata 9mo ago
      > they are still stuck blaming capitalism (just like the soviets I guess). I wouldn't say that the way it works in 2026 is the thing they called capitalism 50 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46146010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46146010
      - seec 9mo ago
        Yes, I completly agree with your point of view, which is exactly why I said that. They are using capitalism as a boogeyman for everything, when in practice the system in place is so far removed from "real" capitalism that ones need to be either blind or ideologicaly corrupt to put the blame there. Unregulated capitalism has many weakness, the most potent one being that there is pruning of useless actors and that results in poverty and some people being left behind. But the remedy that is applied today isn't really much better, people are still left behind, just more slowly and that comes with massive oppotunity cost for those at the bottom, since they are the ones most likely to really benefit from the freedom that comes with capitalism. This is just what the ideologues working in academia and politics (deeply linked) always come up with, even though their existence and ability to make such critics is fully funded by capitalism. There are just keeping the tradition of Marx that was completly funded by capitalists but came up with the argument that it was the worst system possible.

fsflover 9mo ago

https://pluralistic.net/2026/01/01/39c3/ https://pluralistic.net/2026/01/01/39c3/

palata 9mo ago

I don't have anything polite to answer to this :-).

noo_u 9mo ago
It is, at this point, an easily verifiable fact that software engineering jobs in Europe are en masse poorly paid relative to the equivalent positions in the US, and the majority of the EU companies that actually pay well are actually US based. This causes a lot of outflow of talent. That VC funding in Europe is atrocious is obvious to anyone who has had to go through it, and have fun letting a poor performer go from your 5 person startup. Your polite wishful responses are frustrating to read to anyone who's had to go through this hell.
- palata 9mo ago
  Are you saying that Europe can't compete with the US monopolies because all the good developers move to the US?
  - rdm_blackhole 9mo ago
    Yes that is what OP is saying and OP is correct. If you are young, talented and you have a crazy idea that might just work and if you are given the opportunity then you go to the US every-time. Why? Because it makes sense. Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US or better yet, start your own company there and then expand in Europe after building it knowing that if you eventually sell it, you get to keep a lot of the sale price. Talented people don't work for nothing. Motivated and ambitious people don't work for nothing. If Europe wants to see it's own tech giants emerge, then it's needs to compensate founders and employees well. That's as simple as it is. Unfortunately it's just not the case at the moment and until that changes, the most ambitious Europeans will continue leaving and building companies on the other side of the Atlantic.
    - palata 9mo ago
      > Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US Have you ever talked to Europeans in your life?
      - rdm_blackhole 9mo ago
        Have you? I am a European business owner just FYI. I know very well how much taxes I am paying each month.
        menaerus 9mo ago
        It always amazes me that there is a subset of EU people here on HN who are so detached from reality that it makes me wonder if these same people are sitting in Brussels board making decisions. According to the sh*thole in which EU ended up, it is not completely implausible. Can't agree more with what you're saying. My experience is the same.
        rdm_blackhole 9mo ago
        I hear you. It's frustrating really to have these conversations with people who will deny the reality this much. Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions that everyone should be asking, which are amongst others "how can we fix this mess?" , you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU for spite when it couldn't be further from the truth. It's sad but not surprising and until that changes then nothing will change. Europeans need to start being humble again and need to get to work otherwise then we shouldn't be surprised if the US squeezes us from one side while China out-innovates us from the other side. In the meantime the EU is debating if/when it should amend it's cookie law, I am not sure if I should laugh or cry at this point.
        palata 9mo ago
        > you end up with people who think you are simply attacking the EU That's not what I think. But you obviously lack the level of empathy you would need to accept that I may think differently. I accept that you think the way you think: you benefit from it as a business owner. > Instead of using this opportunity to ask the questions Yeah, because you are so superior to everybody else that people should ask you question, and their opinions are not worth your time. "I am the best, I am so frustrated that so many people don't recognise it".
  - noo_u 9mo ago
    Did I use the word "all" anywhere in my comment? There are good developers in Europe. What I am saying is that there would have been even more of them had the incentives not been so lackluster. More talent seems to generally result in a greater competitive ability. Fwiw, I have doubts that currently Europe can compete with the US at the startup level, let alone at the bigco one. I am not trying to drag Europe down - it worries me that sophisticated complacency, overconfidence based on the achievements of previous generations, and addiction to comfort, will start eroding the very aspects that make it a great place to live at.
  - CrimsonRain 9mo ago
    because EU suffocates good developers, gives free roaming to mediocre ones. EU cant compete with anything US or China except making more cookie laws.
CrimsonRain 9mo ago
Please post your impolite answer. I don't mind :) EU (software) industry is a dream for mediocre skilled people. Secure a job once, can't get fired, do bare minimum and never be proactive. It is a hell for people who work hard and fast. The whole culture is geared towards dragging down anyone who is proactive and makes others look bad by being too good.
- seec 9mo ago
  I agree with some reservations about this being completly generalised. There are still some successfull companies that rewards good players. But yes, there are very few and most of the rest are stuck coasting at a glacial pace, doing stuff that are not very competitive on so many levels it is impossible to describe succintly. I would also argue that it is not just about the software industry. Many EU industries have become extremely uncompetitive on so many level. Even when you are ready to pay more for EU made products, it is not easy to find something that is decently competitive and not just a pale copy of better offerings. It is clear that the EU has become too collectivist but they are still stuck blaming capitalism (just like the soviets I guess). In France, even old big players that were once at the top and/or were (semi)public organisation have fallen very hard or have been scandalously sold piecemeal to foreign actors. The problem is not even that they are governement funded but it really is rooted in the collectivist organisation model that gives too much power to politics and very little lattitude to consumer/key actors choice. Those systems become necessarily corrupted because they rely too much on human behaviors and most humans are fundamentally corrupt.
  - palata 9mo ago
    > they are still stuck blaming capitalism (just like the soviets I guess). I wouldn't say that the way it works in 2026 is the thing they called capitalism 50 years ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46146010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46146010
    - seec 9mo ago
      Yes, I completly agree with your point of view, which is exactly why I said that. They are using capitalism as a boogeyman for everything, when in practice the system in place is so far removed from "real" capitalism that ones need to be either blind or ideologicaly corrupt to put the blame there. Unregulated capitalism has many weakness, the most potent one being that there is pruning of useless actors and that results in poverty and some people being left behind. But the remedy that is applied today isn't really much better, people are still left behind, just more slowly and that comes with massive oppotunity cost for those at the bottom, since they are the ones most likely to really benefit from the freedom that comes with capitalism. This is just what the ideologues working in academia and politics (deeply linked) always come up with, even though their existence and ability to make such critics is fully funded by capitalism. There are just keeping the tradition of Marx that was completly funded by capitalists but came up with the argument that it was the worst system possible.