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There is this strange myth that "the pro-CSS side" is somehow against tabular or grid-based layouts, or believe that this kind of layout should only be used for

by olavk 18y ago

There is this strange myth that "the pro-CSS side" is somehow against tabular or grid-based layouts, or believe that this kind of layout should only be used for "tabular data". That is a fundamental misunderstanding. Note that CSS does not say that disply:table is only for tabluar data. The whole point of CSS is that you can use it any way you like, since it doesn't change the semantics of the document. This is totally different from HTML which indeed states that HTML tables should only be used for tabular data. CSS has not "conceded" anything by including display:table - rather this is the whole point of CSS: to allow you to use grid-like layouts for other things than just tabular data.

jerf 18y ago
"There is this strange myth that "the pro-CSS side" is somehow against tabular or grid-based layouts, or believe that this kind of layout should only be used for "tabular data". That is a fundamental misunderstanding." I agree with you... except it is not a myth. There are tons of people walking around and spouting off who have come to believe that "Tables are evil!" People with considered opinions like you are not in the majority of those speaking. "Note that CSS does not say that disply:table is only for tabluar data." It says "Table layout can be used to represent tabular relationships between data." Direct quote, and skimming that page, it's the only normative comment about what it is for. I again agree that CSS doesn't forbid the use in layout, but there definitely are people thinking tabular layouts are forbidden and that only the "IE subset" (again, my best guess at what incoherent thing these people are arguing for) is "pure". You basically re-iterated my point, but I assure you that you are wrong about what other people think. Go check out the parallel /r/programming post.
- olavk 18y ago
  I think when people say "tables are evil" they really mean "HTML-table markup used for purely presentational purposes are not ideal." But maybe you are right. Anyway, I agree we are in agreement, except I don't think the quote from CSS2 you mention is normative. (It says can be used, not must be used or should be used) It is just an example. There is nothing normative in CSS about when to use the different styles.

by olavk 18y ago

jerf 18y ago

"There is this strange myth that "the pro-CSS side" is somehow against tabular or grid-based layouts, or believe that this kind of layout should only be used for "tabular data". That is a fundamental misunderstanding." I agree with you... except it is not a myth. There are tons of people walking around and spouting off who have come to believe that "Tables are evil!" People with considered opinions like you are not in the majority of those speaking. "Note that CSS does not say that disply:table is only for tabluar data." It says "Table layout can be used to represent tabular relationships between data." Direct quote, and skimming that page, it's the only normative comment about what it is for. I again agree that CSS doesn't forbid the use in layout, but there definitely are people thinking tabular layouts are forbidden and that only the "IE subset" (again, my best guess at what incoherent thing these people are arguing for) is "pure". You basically re-iterated my point, but I assure you that you are wrong about what other people think. Go check out the parallel /r/programming post.

olavk 18y ago
I think when people say "tables are evil" they really mean "HTML-table markup used for purely presentational purposes are not ideal." But maybe you are right. Anyway, I agree we are in agreement, except I don't think the quote from CSS2 you mention is normative. (It says can be used, not must be used or should be used) It is just an example. There is nothing normative in CSS about when to use the different styles.